Who do you believe is the most fascinating historical figure?

[HOLA]

I can't stop laughing at George Dubya being ranked number 35. Made me wonder if this list was created like the year after 9-11 or something. What a farce. Complete nonsense.

The list was created in 2013.

 

[HOLA]

Would you say that any politician in the U.S. requires above average intelligence to get elected? Because anyone here can rattle a list of politicians that are as dumb as a box of rocks but know how to check off the party checklist.

This is pretty much one of the main points of War And Peace by Tolstoy. That these "great men" (he was particularly thinking of Napolean) are really mediocrities, in the right place at the right time.

He had some really nice quotes about it at the end of the novel, which I wish I could remember, but I read it like 15 years ago.

 

[Quadtavius Tuck]

Time Magazine's 100 most significant figures in history is a decent list:

Spoiler

1 Jesus

2 Napoleon

3 Muhammad

4 William Shakespeare

5 Abraham Lincoln

6 George Washington

7 Adolf Hitler

8 Aristotle

9 Alexander the Great

10 Thomas Jefferson

11 Henry VIII of England

12 Charles Darwin

13 Elizabeth I of England

14 Karl Marx

15 Julius Caesar

16 Queen Victoria

17 Martin Luther

18 Joseph Stalin

19 Albert Einstein

20 Christopher Columbus

21 Isaac Newton

22 Charlemagne

23 Theodore Roosevelt

24 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

25 Plato

26 Louis XIV of France

27 Ludwig van Beethoven

28 Ulysses S. Grant

29 Leonardo da Vinci

30 Augustus

31 Carl Linnaeus

32 Ronald Reagan

33 Charles Dickens

34 Paul the Apostle

35 Benjamin Franklin

36 George W. Bush

37 Winston Churchill

38 Genghis Khan

39 Charles I of England

40 Thomas Edison

41 James I of England

42 Friedrich Nietzsche

43 Franklin D. Roosevelt

44 Sigmund Freud

45 Alexander Hamilton

46 Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

47 Woodrow Wilson

48 Johann Sebastian Bach

49 Galileo Galilei

50 Oliver Cromwell

51 James Madison

52 Gautama Buddha

53 Mark Twain

54 Edgar Allan Poe

55 Joseph Smith, Jr.

56 Adam Smith

57 David, King of Israel

58 George III of the United Kingdom

59 Immanuel Kant

60 James Cook

61 John Adams

62 Richard Wagner

63 Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

64 Voltaire

65 Saint Peter

66 Andrew Jackson

67 Constantine the Great

68 Socrates

69 Elvis Presley

70 William the Conqueror

71 John F. Kennedy

72 Augustine of Hippo

73 Vincent van Gogh

74 Nicolaus Copernicus

75 Vladimir Lenin

76 Robert E. Lee

77 Oscar Wilde

78 Charles II of England

79 Cicero

80 Jean-Jacques Rousseau

81 Francis Bacon

82 Richard Nixon

83 Louis XVI of France

84 Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor

85 King Arthur

86 Michelangelo

87 Philip II of Spain

88 Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

89 Ali, founder of Sufism

90 Thomas Aquinas

91 Pope John Paul II

92 René Descartes

93 Nikola Tesla

94 Harry S. Truman

95 Joan of Arc

96 Dante Alighieri

97 Otto von Bismarck

98 Grover Cleveland

99 John Calvin

100 John Locke

Not a single Black man on that list... tsk tsk

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

The list was created in 2013.

Honestly, how could they be so stupid? Dubya more influencial than Vladimir Lenin bwahahahahahahahaha.

And of course ya, Mao Zedong, the founder of modern China is nowhere on the list.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Would you say that any politician in the U.S. requires above average intelligence to get elected? Because anyone here can rattle a list of politicians that are as dumb as a box of rocks but know how to check off the party checklist.

Run of the mill U.S. politician? Agree, there are plenty of morons out there cut from the same cloth as the majority of the electorate. But POTUS or elected leader of another world power? You have to make people believe you have the answers and that requires intelligence above the norm. You can't be too smart because then commoners won't relate to you and will think you're weird and eccentric. But you also have to be somewhat smarter than average because otherwise, commoners will see through your gimmick and call your bullshit for what it is.

 

[KnightTemplar]

There is simply no way Hitler could have had a “weird rise to power” without above average intelligence. To achieve and hold onto power, command the respect of his high IQ inner circle. No way.

Now some were calling him out on his bullshit but he still held onto his power until the end.

Probably comparable to a guy like Saddam Hussein who was a thug with above average (but not exceptional) intelligence but with exceptional hustle and drive who was in the right place at the right time.

But being exceptional in one area often comes with shit aptitude in another. A narcissistic complex can mask those deficiencies until they eventually blow up in your face.

And I know it’s autocorrect but lol at “Mein Kopf.”

There is no evidence to suggest Hitler's IQ was much above average. And old Adolf has, for obvious reasons, being the subject of intense study for more than 80 years.

What Hitler had in spades was the ability to manipulate people much smarter than himself by playing on their fears, desires and predjudices. And that can take you a very long way in politics. If Hitler's abilities as a military commander had equalled his political and oratory skills, I'd be typing this in German.

 

[KnightTemplar]

He wasn't a superb anything except being a great orator. His book is an incoherent mess. After the war a the Nuremberg trials, of course everyone is going to say he was the brain behind everything. Above that he was fragile. He dropped out of school because he was embarrassed that he was poor. If you read the intelligence briefs by the U.S. and Britian, he was a paranoid mess that was sexual dysfunction and incapable connecting to other people. At no point as a politician did he show any cunningness or political awareness. He slipped by in a three way election, cleaned out his party by just killing everyone that might be a threat during the Night of Long Knives, develop a crippling addiction to drugs, and wreck the entire country. It is impressive what he did but winning an election is hardly an intelligence test. There is no shortage of really stupid people in politics. The idea that the jews and non-Aryan blood was he reason why Germany lost WW1 is pretty stupid, even back than when so many in Germany had jewish relatives.

Everything that Germany did during the war that was impressive was largely the result Germany being heavily industrialized and the scientific and research center of the world. Hitler barely squeaked into power but someone like him would have existed just due to the many in the country wanting to blame someone for their post WW1 plight.

I've never read Mein Kampf, and plan to die in happy ignorance. But every review I've read agrees with your assessment. Hitler gave a signed copy to Mussoline, and Il Duce later admitted he found it unreadable.

Hitler was smart enough to learn from his mistakes in political terms. After the disasterous Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler realised that the Nazis could only take power through legal means. He also had a born politician's instinct for twisting events to suit his own agenda. The Reichstag Fire being a perfect example. Hitler manipulated the shock and outrage so well that for years, some historians believed the Nazis had set the fire themselves. In fact, it was just a, "happy accident" that Hitler used pave the way for the Enabling Act.

The, "Stab in the Back Myth" was widely believed in Germany partly because both soldiers and civilians were influenced by government propoganda that they were winning the war. Only the upper echelons of the military and government knew how desperate the situation really was. So it came as a huge shock to the average German when the Kiaser ordered a surrender.

Of course Hitler was a pyschological mess. I'm just a layman, but if I were to hazard a diagnosis, I'd say he suffered from a highly dangerous combination of Anti-Social Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Which, given the nature of Politics, isn't really that uncommon. Hitler was just a more extreme case than most.

 

[ChickenBrother]

There is no evidence to suggest Hitler's IQ was much above average. And old Adolf has, for obvious reasons, being the subject of intense study for more than 80 years.

What Hitler had in spades was the ability to manipulate people much smarter than himself by playing on their fears, desires and predjudices. And that can take you a very long way in politics. If Hitler's abilities as a military commander had equalled his political and oratory skills, I'd be typing this in German.

What evidence do you have that he was average or below average IQ? Every study or anecdotal opinion from google search of "what was hitler's IQ?" posits above average to exceptional IQ. I don't buy 150 IQ but I think minimum 120 sounds about right. This is a guy who presided over a global war machine and was conversant enough in a variety of topics to convince some smart people that he was not a complete moron (which it sounds like he may have been in some aspects).

 

[KnightTemplar]

What evidence do you have that he was average or below average IQ? Every study or anecdotal opinion from google search of "what was hitler's IQ?" posits above average to exceptional IQ. I don't buy 150 IQ but I think minimum 120 sounds about right. This is a guy who presided over a global war machine and was conversant enough in a variety of topics to convince some smart people that he was not a complete moron (which it sounds like he may have been in some aspects).

Well for a start, he was dumb enough to invade Russia. Without adequate winter supplies. A quick skim of any good history book would have told him that didn't work out too well for Napolean. And Boney had forgotten more about military tactics than Adolf ever knew.

 

[MDoza]

I don’t believe in Jesus, but he’s easily the most interesting and influential historical figure.

If Constantine doesn’t adopt Christianity as the main religion of Rome and it doesn’t sweep through Europe, the world may never have the Renaissance, Enlightenment and Age of Discovery.

 

[Cole train]

This is pretty much one of the main points of War And Peace by Tolstoy. That these "great men" (he was particularly thinking of Napolean) are really mediocrities, in the right place at the right time.

He had some really nice quotes about it at the end of the novel, which I wish I could remember, but I read it like 15 years ago.

One of things Tolstoi really was wrong about and one of negatives of book(yes i consider myself intelligent enough to shit on tolstoys opinion lmao)

You can call Napoleon,Nelson, Alexander the great etc anything but not mediocre. Quite a few of "great men" had to through a lot of shit to become who they are

 

[ChickenBrother]

Well for a start, he was dumb enough to invade Russia. Without adequate winter supplies. A quick skim of any good history book would have told him that didn't work out too well for Napolean. And Boney had forgotten more about military tactics than Adolf ever knew.

Fedor totally sucks at fighting because he let himself get submitted by Werdum. Just dove right into his guard and put himself into a triangle. Who does that? Fuckin' white belt tomato can, that's who. Even I know better than to do that. I bet I could totally kick his ass.

 

[deucesarewild]

I'd say Isaac Newton for me.

And for the notorious/infamous Adolf Hitler.

Alexander the Great or Hannibal of Carthage

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Nero

 

[Daverisimo]

Oscar Wilde is an obvious pick imo.

Yukio Mishima is a little less obvious, but just as interesting imo.

Lord Byron's a good pick, and as a bonus you can tye Ada Lovelace into the discussion.

 

[Bacco]

Too many to pick, even just sticking to italian history my top ten would be stacked af

Julius Caesar
Agrippa
Casanova
Leonardo
Giovanni dalle Bande Nere
Marco Polo
Garibaldi
Caravaggio
Scipio
Columbus

 

[Fuzzybabyducks]

Johnny Appleseed

 

[TadDunbar]

The Just Bleed God

 

[dc007]

Yeah, Hitler. Crazy fuck.

 

[Cheshire_Rat]

Teddy Roosevelt. Guys life and presidency is something else. He’s my favorite president in history.

Frank Abagnale - if you know you know.

Hitler and his group I find more interesting because they were soo supremely fucked up. The whole symbolism and occultism makes it especially menacing even in hindsight. My stepfather was a German youth in the war so I have a bit of special insight.