International What's going on in the UK --- Rwanda Bill

[Plastikman_Eire]

More refugees? How many more is enough for you? There are almost 50 million babies born in Africa every year, multiple times that of the entire population of Ireland (about 5 million) … every single YEAR.

I would say 5x to 10x of what Ireland currently accepts.

What does the birth rate of an entire continent have to do with anything? It is not like even 1% of that 50mill will need to seek asylum anywhere.

It is certainly plausible that in the coming years or decades, you could have a situation like that Italian island, whereby there are more “refugees” than indeed the people of that country.

No it isnt. That would required 10million refugees to arrive in Ireland.

The situation on some of the Mediterranean islands is due to their geographical location and tiny size, which isnt going be duplicated anywhere else in Europe. Those islands are being turned into refugee ghettos because the time to process asylum applications is currently 6 to 12 months.

The EU needs to support countries like Italy and Greece to allow them process asylum seekers in days rather than months, to prevent places like Lampedusa becoming holding camps. The legit cases get moved on to host countries, and the spurious cases get shipped back.

I asked you whether or not you would want this for Ireland (your country) and you said “no-one in their right mind would want that”, suggesting that you believe that there should be a limit on the number of “refugees” entering Ireland … right?

Nope, no-one in their right mind would want a humanitarian disaster on their door step.

… suggesting that there would come a point, where you would refuse entry to “refugees” presumably for the reason that it would have a detrimental effect on your own country, be it economically or socioculturally … right?

Yes of course but, fortunately, we dont need to choose between accepting zero refugees or accepting more refugees than your country can support.

 

[Kingz]

Brexit is half the reason we're in this situation in the first place. Fuck Brexit

What situation are you referring to?

I’m assuming you’re not referencing anything from my post about their cultural rot and seemingly universal institutional and corporate surrender to political correctness and censorship…nor the desperate need for a legit right wing being exacerbated by Brexit. So what situation?

 

[Hellowhosthat]

What situation are you referring to?

I’m assuming you’re not referencing anything from my post about their cultural rot and seemingly universal institutional and corporate surrender to political correctness and censorship…nor the desperate need for a legit right wing being exacerbated by Brexit. So what situation?

What gives you the impression we need a right wing? Culturally things aren't massively different than they used to be. A little more PC but UK culture is still footy, get pissed on the weekend, moan about the weather and eat shit food.

 

[jimbob27]

They're shit at all of it because they're too liberal. Government's job in all of those areas you listed is to get out of the way.

Well there are plenty of parties right of the tories, they make up the majority of the bottom half of our ballot papers. UKIP, Britain First, the BNP, Whatever Lawrence Fox's party is called. Christian parties, the English democrats.

Along with the tories, we don't have an effective right wing in this country, because the right is mostly made up of useless moaning old people mixed in with a few random conspiracy theorists and racist Indians.

The tories pick up PC policies like the green and gay stuff because they know the electorate is generally pretty moderate in this country and ignoring or being against those issues would be electoral suicide and would result in them becoming one of those bottom-of-the-ballot parties.

Brexit is the heart of the rot. @The_Renaissance talks about lefties wanting to "burn it all down" but the party that used to be known for fiscal responsibility has made that their core policy for the last 7 years. Exit the EU without any kind of plan other than a vague promise of a trade deal from ex-president Trump, and just wing it as some tertiary European country like fucking Turkey or Ukraine.

 

[650lb Sumo]

No it isnt. That would required 10million refugees to arrive in Ireland.

The population of the ROI is about 5,200,000, of which about 3,900,000 are ethnically Irish. These are the numbers from the census last year - the real proportion of ethnic Irish to non ethnic Irish will be lower as some people will not have been counted and some have arrived/left since then. Bearing in mind that:

Most immigrants to the ROI are not classed as 'refugees'.
Significant numbers of ethnic Irish people emigrate every year.
The immigrants, and their descendants, have higher birth rates than the ethnic Irish.
Not every baby born to an ethnic Irishwoman is ethnically Irish as the father may not be.

It won't be long, if current trends continue, before the ethnic Irish are a minority in the ROI. The year for the UK is around 2060, perhaps a few years earlier, and it looks like being earlier for the ROI.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irish-could-be-minority-ethnic-group-here-by-2050-professor-1.424517

(The name of the professor: Ferdinand von Prondzynski)

 

[SandisLL]

Taxes are higher than they have ever been.

Immigration is out of control and at record levels.

Especially after Brexit while you had been promised to get lesser tax and lesser number of immigrants if will vote for Brexit.

 

[Goonerview]

I would say 5x to 10x of what Ireland currently accepts.

What does the birth rate of an entire continent have to do with anything? It is not like even 1% of that 50mill will need to seek asylum anywhere.

The birth rate is indicative of future populations. Africa’s population currently of about 1.2 billion, is set to more than double by 2050. That’s over a billion extra people in the very near future that are going to be mostly poor and by current trends, will mostly be wanting to migrate to the west for economic opportunities.

You say, 5x or 10x … ok, why not 11x? Why not 20x? Are you saying that at some point, YOU would feel that allowing more immigrants into Ireland would be detrimental to Ireland and Irish people?

If that is what you are saying, then why are you prioritizing the rights of Irish people over African immigrants? Why don’t they have the right to live and work in Ireland as much as Irish people?

No it isnt. That would required 10million refugees to arrive in Ireland.

lol, you think that there aren’t enough poor people around the world to eclipse the population of the ROI?? … which is only about 4 million people (mostly old people).

I just told you that there are almost 50 million Africans born every single year … by comparison, there are about 3.5 million Europeans born every year in the EU … easily enough to eclipse the Irish population, just like this Italian island.

If you don’t think so, you really need to study demographics…

The EU needs to support countries like Italy and Greece to allow them process asylum seekers in days rather than months, to prevent places like Lampedusa becoming holding camps. The legit cases get moved on to host countries, and the spurious cases get shipped back..

The EU, in “helping” Italy would only encourage more people to come. I just told you, almost 50 million babies born EVERY YEAR … over 10 times that of the EU … the number of poor people wanting to migrate to the EU is, virtually, endless …

The EU, in spreading “the refugees” around the EU are not “solving the problem”, LMAO … they would make catastrophically worse.

Nope, no-one in their right mind would want a humanitarian disaster on their door step.

And, yet, here you are advocating for policies that would cause just that.

 

[reveler]

theyre tootin barbs in liverpool, i know that much.

 

[panem-et-circenses]

Merge? @KowboyMMA @LMP

The Conservative Party conference has been underwhelming, at least what I have heard on the radio while driving. Just a bunch of suits repeating over and over the same lines, e.g., ‘spades in the ground’, or endlessly pivoting to other topics. They’ve gone to the Chris Philp school of politics, and have become NPC’s for bad ideas.

Rishi is doing his last rich-guy burst, putting forward 1% benefits/socialism, but isn’t using any of his opportunities to overcome middler Starmer. So, he ‘righted the ship’, but let’s be honest — he doesn’t sniff power without a historic collapse of Boris and Truss. Obvious, right? Well, it has to be brought up because it’s campaign time, and hes not good. At all. And HS2 looms over everything when, in reality, he should have pulled the trigger already. That’s weakness.

The Tories are the party of sleaze. Sure, some good ideas, and they haven’t been exactly wrong on some social issues, yet they’ve mismanaged everything to the point of it being laughable. The only thing they’ve got going for them is political disengagement, elderly voters who will check the same boxes every cycle, and voters who still think Jeremy Corbyn is around.

 

[Phlog]

The public perception is that UK plc is an industry in decline being asset stripped by the current board to provide them and their friends with one last big pay day before everything goes tits up and they leave Labour to try (and probably fail) to hose down the ocean of excrement they've left in their wake .

This.

And people itt are saying Tories have been in 13 yrs... New Labour was a experiment by labour to get power by pretending to be Tory so really I think they didn't provide much of an interruption. As such it's been largely Tory (or their funders) rule since 1979.

That period has been defined by the selling off of state assets to private concerns, privatisation. It has not provided better services

Even Brexit was just a way of shorting the UK economy for a small number of canny investors.

The only actually real alternative we've had in that time was Corbyn, and you saw what the institution of the British media did to him in service of its cronies. Funnily enough he was the only one who actually believed ideologically in Brexit but the stupid Brits were easily convinced the person that closely matched their own ideology was the devil.

Broadly what can be observed in this country is the death of empire, but it's been characterized by purposeful mismanagement.

 

[Billy no mates]

Merge? @KowboyMMA @LMP
The Conservative Party conference has been underwhelming, at least what I have heard on the radio while driving. Just a bunch of suits repeating over and over the same lines, e.g., ‘spades in the ground’, or endlessly pivoting to other topics. They’ve gone to the Chris Philp school of politics, and have become NPC’s for bad ideas.

Rishi is doing his last rich-guy burst, putting forward 1% benefits/socialism, but isn’t using any of his opportunities to overcome middler Starmer. So, he ‘righted the ship’, but let’s be honest — he doesn’t sniff power without a historic collapse of Boris and Truss. Obvious, right? Well, it has to be brought up because it’s campaign time, and hes not good. At all. And HS2 looms over everything when, in reality, he should have pulled the trigger already. That’s weakness.

The Tories are the party of sleaze. Sure, some good ideas, and they haven’t been exactly wrong on some social issues, yet they’ve mismanaged everything to the point of it being laughable. The only thing they’ve got going for them is political disengagement, elderly voters who will check the same boxes every cycle, and voters who still think Jeremy Corbyn is around.

Bravermans speech was little more than a thinly veiled leadership bid , Sunaks attempt to position the Conservatives as some kind of anti establishment party after 13 years of Tory malaise just seems bizarre .

 

[SandisLL]

This.

And people itt are saying Tories have been in 13 yrs... New Labour was a experiment by labour to get power by pretending to be Tory so really I think they didn't provide much of an interruption. As such it's been largely Tory (or their funders) rule since 1979.

That period has been defined by the selling off of state assets to private concerns, privatisation. It has not provided better services

Even Brexit was just a way of shorting the UK economy for a small number of canny investors.

The only actually real alternative we've had in that time was Corbyn, and you saw what the institution of the British media did to him in service of its cronies. Funnily enough he was the only one who actually believed ideologically in Brexit but the stupid Brits were easily convinced the person that closely matched their own ideology was the devil.

Broadly what can be observed in this country is the death of empire, but it's been characterized by purposeful mismanagement.

I will list for you real effect from Brexit regards immigration and investors.

1. Reality. Investors if they does have enough money still are allowed to live in U.K just cos they are investors and does have money.
2. Highly paid office type jobs positions aren't protected cos Brexit had happened.
A. A lot of office type jobs are outsourced.
B. Highly skilled candidates with proper education and experience does have little problems to get visa and permit, it is reality.

C. While Brexit might protect from EU citizens like a dish washer, It can't protect from immigrant chief or staff chief in real restaurant. It is impossible.

D. Seasonal short term workers like fruit pickers: welcome to reality : even from Indonesia and Moldova not alone Ukraine or " dumb " EU.

E. Construction sub contractors teams doing some short term tasks: sorry, Brexit didn't had protected nor from Ukr nor Turks etc....

 

[curryjunkie]

This.

And people itt are saying Tories have been in 13 yrs... New Labour was a experiment by labour to get power by pretending to be Tory so really I think they didn't provide much of an interruption. As such it's been largely Tory (or their funders) rule since 1979.

That period has been defined by the selling off of state assets to private concerns, privatisation. It has not provided better services

Even Brexit was just a way of shorting the UK economy for a small number of canny investors.

The only actually real alternative we

Broadly what can be observed in this country is the death of empire, but it's been characterized by purposeful mismanagement.

Nailed it, especially the last paragraph

 

[Phlog]

Most people say all the politicians are the same, but they are complicit in politicians offering real change being ostracized. They were the types repeating the lies about Corbyn for example.

The real institution of this country is the upper class choke hold over the political discourse.

I will list for you real effect from Brexit regards immigration and investors.

1. Reality. Investors if they does have enough money still are allowed to live in U.K just cos they are investors and does have money.
2. Highly paid office type jobs positions aren't protected cos Brexit had happened.
A. A lot of office type jobs are outsourced.
B. Highly skilled candidates with proper education and experience does have little problems to get visa and permit, it is reality.

C. While Brexit might protect from EU citizens like a dish washer, It can't protect from immigrant chief or staff chief in real restaurant. It is impossible.

D. Seasonal short term workers like fruit pickers: welcome to reality : even from Indonesia and Moldova not alone Ukraine or " dumb " EU.

E. Construction sub contractors teams doing some short term tasks: sorry, Brexit didn't had protected nor from Ukr nor Turks etc....

All of that though was incidental.

When one observes effects of Brexit the thought emerges "did no one consider this particular effect and plan for it's eventuality?".

The simplest explanation is that these things were not considered because they were not important.

What was considered was how to make a great deal of money off of the British public. It was like a fire sell. The pound lost about 1/4 of its value in the last 5 years relative to other currencies and that money went to the friends and family of the conservatives.

Nigel Farage, one of the architects of Brexit, certainly of the initial public campaign for it is an ex investment banker. He was their man.

The British, as the Americans say, really were turkeys voting for Christmas. You get the politicians you deserve too. It is a deeply rotten society.

 

[Plastikman_Eire]

The birth rate is indicative of future populations. Africa’s population currently of about 1.2 billion, is set to more than double by 2050. That’s over a billion extra people in the very near future that are going to be mostly poor and by current trends, will mostly be wanting to migrate to the west for economic opportunities.

You've missed(or chosen to ignore, for the purpose of strawman-ing) the part of my post which says:

"The EU needs to support countries like Italy and Greece to allow them process asylum seekers in days rather than months, to prevent places like Lampedusa becoming holding camps. The legit cases get moved on to host countries, and the spurious cases get shipped back"

You say, 5x or 10x … ok, why not 11x? Why not 20x? Are you saying that at some point, YOU would feel that allowing more immigrants into Ireland would be detrimental to Ireland and Irish people?

If that is what you are saying, then why are you prioritizing the rights of Irish people over African immigrants? Why don’t they have the right to live and work in Ireland as much as Irish people?

Sure, why not 11x. Id like to see countries take in a number of asylum seekers that physical space and they economy allows them to support, not a limit based on xenophobic pearl clutching, and slippery slope arguments.

lol, you think that there aren’t enough poor people around the world to eclipse the population of the ROI?? … which is only about 4 million people (mostly old people).

I just told you that there are almost 50 million Africans born every single year … by comparison, there are about 3.5 million Europeans born every year in the EU … easily enough to eclipse the Irish population, just like this Italian island.

If you don’t think so, you really need to study demographics…

Why would they A) All seek asylum, and B) All travel to Ireland?

The EU, in “helping” Italy would only encourage more people to come. I just told you, almost 50 million babies born EVERY YEAR … over 10 times that of the EU … the number of poor people wanting to migrate to the EU is, virtually, endless …

The EU, in spreading “the refugees” around the EU are not “solving the problem”, LMAO … they would make catastrophically worse.



And, yet, here you are advocating for policies that would cause just that.

How does properly processing cases and offering asylum to those is genuine need create a humanitarian disaster?

 

[Plastikman_Eire]

The population of the ROI is about 5,200,000, of which about 3,900,000 are ethnically Irish. These are the numbers from the census last year - the real proportion of ethnic Irish to non ethnic Irish will be lower as some people will not have been counted and some have arrived/left since then. Bearing in mind that:

Most immigrants to the ROI are not classed as 'refugees'.
Significant numbers of ethnic Irish people emigrate every year.
The immigrants, and their descendants, have higher birth rates than the ethnic Irish.
Not every baby born to an ethnic Irishwoman is ethnically Irish as the father may not be.

It won't be long, if current trends continue, before the ethnic Irish are a minority in the ROI. The year for the UK is around 2060, perhaps a few years earlier, and it looks like being earlier for the ROI.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irish-could-be-minority-ethnic-group-here-by-2050-professor-1.424517

(The name of the professor: Ferdinand von Prondzynski)

Holy racial purity batman.

I couldnt care less about the number of ethnic Irish, if a child is born in Ireland, they are irish.

Our small island is crying out for greater genetic diversity, and fuck knows that Irish food needs all the help it can get.

 

[BigDeadFreak]

Especially after Brexit while you had been promised to get lesser tax and lesser number of immigrants if will vote for Brexit.

Exactly. I just makes you think, what's the point? If they'll even ignore something as radical as Brexit and carry on as usual they'll never listen to anything we say.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Holy racial purity batman.

I couldnt care less about the number of ethnic Irish, if a child is born in Ireland, they are irish.

Our small island is crying out for greater genetic diversity, and fuck knows that Irish food needs all the help it can get.

What if they openly don't consider themselves Irish? I mean that happens a lot. I work with two women born here, of Somali heritage, who consider themselves Somali first and foremost.

 

[Oris79]

The problem with British conservatives is they're not conservative. They're basically liberals who've done nothing while London and other major cities have become hell holes filled with unassimilated migrants from 2nd and 3rd world countries. They keep pandering to the tq+ crowd as well.

 

[curryjunkie]

The problem with British conservatives is they're not conservative. They're basically liberals who've done nothing while London and other major cities have become hell holes filled with unassimilated migrants from 2nd and 3rd world countries. They keep pandering to the tq+ crowd as well.

tell me you know fuck all about british politics without saying it aloud...