Media Michel Pereira Submits Ihor Potieria GIFS

[Mohawk Banditó]

Pereira at MW is a damn machine. Lets get a good opponent for him next!

Yeah. Someone said top 5 and I don't know about that considering the people he beat, but that is 3 incredible first round stoppages, and he deserves a bump up

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

But this isn't what happened, so it's irrelevant. What happened is somewhat complicated and grey according to the actual rules than the drama queens on here are making it out to be.

Take Anderson vs Chael 2. Everyone agrees that Anderson kneed Chael in the chest. However, while the point of the knee clearly misses Chael's head, it appears that part of Silva's leg still makes contact with Chael's head. Was this a foul?

No, because the rules as written clearly allow the ref to use discretion to ignore incidental leg contact to the head of a grounded fighter if they don't deem it to be a knee/kick/stomp directly to the head.

Yes, it was a foul and was missed.

Also, people kick with their shins, not their feet, so your other post questioning knee placement in the world of kicks and knees is utterly ridiculous.

Again, incidental doesn't matter. "Or else we wouldn't have grappling" doesn't cut it when I've seen fights stopped because someone took a foot to the face when the fighter was swinging their leg around for an armbar

 

[Jackonfire]

But this isn't what happened, so it's irrelevant. What happened is somewhat complicated and grey according to the actual rules than the drama queens on here are making it out to be.

Take Anderson vs Chael 2. Everyone agrees that Anderson kneed Chael in the chest. However, while the point of the knee clearly misses Chael's head, it appears that part of Silva's leg still makes contact with Chael's head. Was this a foul?

No, because the rules as written clearly allow the ref to use discretion to ignore incidental leg contact to the head of a grounded fighter if they don't deem it to be a knee/kick/stomp directly to the head.

Right. And what makes this different is Pereira wasn't even throwing a strike. He didn't pull his knee back then launch it forward at his opponent. He did a back flip to pass guard.

How can it be an illegal strike when no strike was thrown

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Hard to tell from that angle, but it looks like the knee after the backflip landed where the neck meets the chest... not on the head.

I would expect it to be reviewed by the jedi council & overturned if it did actually graze the face on the way through.

 

[Barteh]

Right. And what makes this different is Pereira wasn't even throwing a strike. He didn't pull his knee back then launch it forward at his opponent. He did a back flip to pass guard.

How can it be an illegal strike when no strike was thrown

It's an interesting loophole. The rules focus so much on explaining what a grounded opponent is that it forgets to explain what a knee/strike is.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Right. And what makes this different is Pereira wasn't even throwing a strike. He didn't pull his knee back then launch it forward at his opponent. He did a back flip to pass guard.

How can it be an illegal strike when no strike was thrown

I get what you're saying, but he does this backflip a lot... & if he's aiming for the head, (which it seems that he might be) that's an actual "intended" strike.

Interesting though, I don't think the roolz require it to be an "intended" strike... "kicks or knees to the head will not be allowed" is the way it reads in teh roolz. Regardless of intention a knee to teh melon is a foul... the way I'm reading it.

Throat strikes are also illegal... but there's a more clear definition about those in the rools that allow for accidental throat strikes. Nothing like that is noted on kicks to downed opponents, so it seems the absence of that dialog says that no accidents shall be overlooked.

 

[Sasha]

After having one of the top 5 worst days of my life, maybe top 3 the other day. Starting my day off today with @KazDibiase means I can only have a good one now.

Hey, I hope you're good, now, Sherbro.

 

[Hdfi]

knee did not touch the head.

 

[Dr Fong]

Yes, it was a foul and was missed.

Also, people kick with their shins, not their feet, so your other post questioning knee placement in the world of kicks and knees is utterly ridiculous.

Again, incidental doesn't matter. "Or else we wouldn't have grappling" doesn't cut it when I've seen fights stopped because someone took a foot to the face when the fighter was swinging their leg around for an armbar

And I've obviously seen thousands more fights where fighters have made contact with their legs to the opponent's head going for armbars or all kinds of positions and the fight not be stopped.

Things like 'intent' and 'incidental' clearly do matter. The rules do not explicitly define 'knee' or 'kick' in terms of intent but in the very next rule they do define a 'stomp' in terms of 'strike'. It's therefore reasonable to conclude that the same interpretation applies to knees and kicks as well. But to be very generous, this is 'grey' - which is exactly my point.

Let's say you then want to also define a 'kick' or a 'knee' as something like 'forceful contact regardless of intent to strike'. Fine. But it doesn't say that in the actual rules. At best this is left to referee discretion. Grey. Again.

Because incidental leg contact to the head is allowed - whether you think this point 'doesn't cut it' or not is asinine as it is fundamentally relevant - the ref is left to either determine intent or, perhaps, force of the contact. But the rules don't state how forceful, for obvious reasons. So this has to be at the ref's discretion again.

And then we get into the clear precedent of refs ruling that strikes can be legal even if part of the leg makes contact to the head. More discretion, where the initial contact is clearly judged as relevant to whether the secondary contact is considered a foul.

You can't rationally accept all these things and outright state flips with no clear intent of a strike and initial contact that is definitely legal, and then secondary contact which hits the head is some open and shut foul devoid of grey areas.

You have to just accept the ref's legitimate basis for not ruling it a foul, even if you would have done otherwise.

 

[Dr Fong]

I get what you're saying, but he does this backflip a lot... & if he's aiming for the head, (which it seems that he might be) that's an actual "intended" strike.

Interesting though, I don't think the roolz require it to be an "intended" strike... "kicks or knees to the head will not be allowed" is the way it reads in teh roolz. Regardless of intention a knee to teh melon is a foul... the way I'm reading it. "impact" is the word they use, & so a strike is a strike regardless of intention.

Throat strikes are also illegal... so even if he missed teh head... it does look like teh strike might had landed on his throat. Real close to top chest/throat.

The rule clearly clarifies that only 'directed throat strikes' are illegal. It makes it clear that inadvertent hits to the throat are not (and years of clear precedent backs this up).

It also doesn't say 'impact' anywhere in relation the knee/kick rule.

Generally, strike implies intent in combat sports - the main accepted definition of the word refers to a deliberate action. But yes, you can also interpret it to mean unintentional 'forceful contact' as per other dictionary definitions.

 

[Psychojoe86]

To the illegal knee debate, imo it’s not illegal. He’s doing a flip, and the intent could be to land on the body. The opponent theoretically turns/moves into the strike, which means it’s not a penalty.

To compare, a fighter standing throws a punch to the guy’s face, but the guy turns and punch hits back of the head. Not a foul when it occurs like that.

Anyway it’s debatable. Would like it addressed by big John or something soon

 

[Myrddin Wild]

The rule clearly clarifies that only 'directed throat strikes' are illegal. It makes it clear that inadvertent hits to the throat are not (and years of clear precedent backs this up).

It also doesn't say 'impact' anywhere in relation the knee/kick rule.

Generally, strike implies intent in combat sports - the main accepted definition of the word refers to a deliberate action. But yes, you can also interpret it to mean unintentional 'forceful contact' as per other dictionary definitions.

Agreed on teh throat strike. I looked at that a little more carefully after posting this & an accidental or inadvertent throat strike is acceptable... such as this one should be. (if he touched teh throat.)

"Strikes impy intent" isn't a factor in this. Just as an accidental finger in the eye is a foul, so is a knee to the face of a downed opponent. Intentional or not.

The question is whether his knee grazed teh face, & whatever the debate on impact or not... it's crystal clear that if the knee hit the face for any reason while he's down, then that's a foul.

Note: I've studied these roolz very closely through the years, & impact is a key concept when it comes to striking. It's mentioned several times in the scoring of striking... & so even if it doesn't say that specifically in regard to knee strikes... it is still a "strike" & so requires "impact." Anyways, the wording isn't even necessary, because if that knee even lightly grazed his face, then it's a foul & there-fore a no contest. imo....

 

[Myrddin Wild]

The opponent theoretically turns/moves into the strike, which means it’s not a penalty.

To compare, a fighter standing throws a punch to the guy’s face, but the guy turns and punch hits back of the head. Not a foul when it occurs like that.

Great addition to the convo. That's clearly layed out in regard to throat strikes & back of the head. However, it's different with kicks or kneez to the head. Whether the guy moves into it or not, it's a foul.

 

[Psychojoe86]

Great addition to the convo. That's clearly layed out in regard to throat strikes & back of the head. However, it's different with kicks or kneez to the head. Whether the guy moves into it or not, it's a foul.

For sure, thanks.

Then maybe the difference is intent, which could help him avoid a point deduction.

One thing I’m glad is that the fight didn’t end in a weird controversy, and instead one just occurred very subtly. Would be bad if it ruined a major fight with an iffy result.

 

[kingofthecans]

Hey, I hope you're good, now, Sherbro.

I'm not but only one bad thing happened today where the other day a few things did. Sadly it was my mom being assaulted today by a crazy guy when she was visiting my dying dad who went mental himself the other day and is in the hospital. Thankfully the one crazy guy only threw a glass of water and ice at her before they could stop him, but man. Sucks balls getting home after seeing your family and dad saying he'd rather be dead then deal with ya let alone other things just before your leaving to head back and all that happens in a 24 hour period after I get home.

 

[Tweak896]

Yeah. Someone said top 5 and I don't know about that considering the people he beat, but that is 5 incredible first round stoppages, and he deserves a bump up

So guys on the roster I'm tired of waiting for a real challenge

 

[Kindjal]

Seems like it was a flip on a downed opponent that could result in a number of simultaneous "strikes" land but it appeared Michel was going for his right knee to the guy's chin but there is no real control when both guys are falling in a dynamic situation. Pereira's right knee could have landed on the guy's larynx .

Hopefully the commission makes some kind of ruling on that move and not just carry on like nothing special happened.

 

[KazDibiase]

After having one of the top 5 worst days of my life, maybe top 3 the other day. Starting my day off today with @KazDibiase means I can only have a good one now.

As for the knee, I hate when crap like that happens. It looks like it hit. It sucks cause that will be talked about, but also why I think this guy fits a league with grounded knees, even though I'm not a fan of em in a way.
Dude is like every classic martial arts movie and fighting game rolled into one. Honestly one of the most enjoyable fighters to watch. Love or hate him, he just fucking entertains and delivers.

Thanks brother! Hope things get better for you!

 

[TCE]

Seems like it was a flip on a downed opponent that could result in a number of simultaneous "strikes" land but it appeared Michel was going for his right knee to the guy's chin but there is no real control when both guys are falling in a dynamic situation. Pereira's right knee could have landed on the guy's larynx .

Hopefully the commission makes some kind of ruling on that move and not just carry on like nothing special happened.

no, I hope the commission carries on like fuck all happened.

Knees to a grounded opponent should be legal, this nonsense has been going on too long.

 

[RonDante]

Right. And what makes this different is Pereira wasn't even throwing a strike. He didn't pull his knee back then launch it forward at his opponent. He did a back flip to pass guard.

How can it be an illegal strike when no strike was thrown

His shin caught potieria in the neck and jaw and slammed the back of his head against the canvas. Illegal strike, foul