Opinion If communism was to make a come back. Which country would be the first to see it?

[SammyPops]

Canada is already fighting to be a front-runner

Not really. We are quickly sliding into totaitarianism but not really communism.

Big govt with extra judicial bodies and a few major companies running entire sectors of the economy e.g. banking, grocery stores, telecoms/internet all points to fascism.

 

[William Huggins]

I have no idea what you're getting at.

justin trudeau

 

[Rod1]

Probably some country in Latin America.

But not even communist countries want to be communist today, Cuba and North Korea are the only ones with a serious command economy.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Ah yes - because Kim jong un owning the entire productive output of North Korea and funneling its profits to enrich himself is communism. I believe Marx wrote that in the communist manifesto - "the more that the means of production are owned by one man, the more communist the nation is". I think it went something like that.

I swear to God, you goofy chuds will spend your entire lives fear mongering about communism, but refuse to spend even 60 seconds learning about the actual ideology that you supposedly hate.

Stop looking like an idiot and do the reading.

Where exactly I'm fear mongering about Communism?

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

History is literally filled with the dead of one form of socialism/communism killing the other, that's not a very smart argument, Hitler had another sect of socialism purged from his movement??? Wow you think that doesn't make the Nazi party the National socialist party, please explain to me what the Nazi party stood for?? What was their manifesto because it definitely sounds like a national socialist movement.

So what sort of Kool Aid was Mussolini pushing?? Because Hitler and him didn't see eye to eye on lots of things and Mussolini's fascist party was full of Jews......



I think this guy might be able to answer why it's not taught in schools.......

The National socialist got destroyed, I'm guessing they'll not be writing history now.....

Do you want me to point out nationalism of industries and the division of the profits, sounds like socialism to me maybe it's the National bit of their manifesto that hurts you???

By Socialist we mean Marxist. The nazis had social policies but rejected Marxist theory.
The Soviet Union, China, Cuba, North Korea etc followed Marxist and then Leninist doctrine. Even to this day, the surviving regimes, they are still strongly influenced by it.

 

[blackheart]

Yeah, every country in the world has elements of a planned economy and free markets. Reminds me of this:

wait...so you're telling me every country in the world is basically just like early Nazi Germany?!

 

[blackheart]

Very creepy drooling over China.

You're free to point out where I'm factually wrong. I don't understand what's "creepy" about appreciating 800 million people being lifted out of poverty. Do you often characterize feeling good about human prosperity as "creepy"? Or does the entirety of your thought process start and stop with "hurrr durrr china bad"

As if having a greater population than almost anyone is supposed to be a hindrance, and as if achieving similar results to the West 40 years behind is an achievement.

Lmaoooo. The opposite of what you said, is what's actually true. The US experienced industrialization for over TWO CENTURIES starting in the 18th century. China hasn't been industrializing for even a century, and they've already lifted 2.5x the population of the US out of poverty.

You said - China is "40 years behind the West"
The reality - The US industrialized 4x longer than China and achieved inferior results. The poverty rate in America is increasing, and the home ownership rate is now below 50% while in China it is over 90%.

Is it even possible to be owned any harder?

 

[blackheart]

Not compared to liberalism.

Still, way too gargantuan of a subject to get into here.

China has gone from a poor country to a middle-income country. Still a long, long way off from well-run countries. Per-capita GDP is only around $13K.

They have gone from an agrarian backwater and one of the poorest countries on earth, to being the #2 economy on the planet while lifting 800 million people out of poverty, in about half a century. Yes, still a long way to go for sure. But what they have managed to do, in the amount of time they've done it, is simply incredible.

Glad to finally have someone in the thread that isn't angrily shouting at shadows flickering on their wall, that I can have a rational conversation with.

 

[Rod1]

I swear to God, you goofy chuds will spend your entire lives fear mongering about communism, but refuse to spend even 60 seconds learning about the actual ideology that you supposedly hate.

This is like saying the Crusades weren't Christian because Jesus said violence is not ok.

When we talk about an ideology we tend to judge it based on the practical ideology that affects our lives, not some first world hippie theorizing about communism in a college somewhere.

 

[Rod1]

The reality - The US industrialized 4x longer than China and achieved inferior results. The poverty rate in America is increasing, and the home ownership rate is now below 50% while in China it is over 90%.

Big difference is China is just catching up, the US was one the leaders of the industrial revolution.

Of course its easier to industrialize when you are simply buying machinery vs the long process of developing it.

 

[brothir]

You're free to point out where I'm factually wrong. I don't understand what's "creepy" about appreciating 800 million people being lifted out of poverty. Do you often characterize feeling good about human prosperity as "creepy"? Or does the entirety of your thought process start and stop with "hurrr durrr china bad"

Lmaoooo. The opposite of what you said, is what's actually true. The US experienced industrialization for over TWO CENTURIES starting in the 18th century. China hasn't been industrializing for even a century, and they've already lifted 2.5x the population of the US out of poverty.

You said - China is "40 years behind the West"
The reality - The US industrialized 4x longer than China and achieved inferior results. The poverty rate in America is increasing, and the home ownership rate is now below 50% while in China it is over 90%.

Is it even possible to be owned any harder?

I did. The insistence on the absolute quantity of people isn't relevant in terms of assessing that China has done well. You just glossed over that. Feeling good about China also requires glossing over the regime's authoritarian nature, which is what's creepy. The US, or any other Western country, has achieved vastly superior results compared to China. When I was talking about China being 40 years behind, that's in terms of measurements like GDP per capita. China's GPDpC today is $13k, and the US' was $13k in 1980. Pretty much exactly 40 years behind.

 

[blackheart]

Big difference is China is just catching up, the US was one the leaders of the industrial revolution.

Of course its easier to industrialize when you are simply buying machinery vs the long process of developing it.

Sure, context is important. The US has still had 4-5x more time to develop and industrialize than China has had. I'm sure China would have loved to have the opportunity to industrialize when the west was. One big problem - the West was destabilizing them by flooding them with opium and waging economic and hot wars. Point is, it's idiotic to be like "oh yeah China is 40 years behind us" while pretending you didn't have a two-century head start. I'm sure that same dude thinks racial wealth inequality doesn't exist

 

[blackheart]

I did. The insistence on the absolute quantity of people isn't relevant in terms of assessing that China has done well. You just glossed over that. Feeling good about China also requires glossing over the regime's authoritarian nature,

Lol what? Where did I do that?
Also, just plainly biased thinking. Does that same criteria also apply to praising the good in the west? "Feeling good about the US also requires glossing over the regime's genocide of the natives and institutional slavery". Just an obviously wacky and out there way of thinking, that you obviously don't apply evenly on both sides.

which is what's creepy. The US, or any other Western country, has achieved vastly superior results compared to China. When I was talking about China being 40 years behind, that's in terms of measurements like GDP per capita. China's GPDpC today is $13k, and the US' was $13k in 1980. Pretty much exactly 40 years behind.

There are other measurements that are much more useful for determining human well-being. Relative wealth is a measure that broadly gestures at those other measures. Relative wealth is a statistic that indicates other statistics. There are countries with higher per capita GDP than the US. There are also countries with lower per capita GDP, that beat us in virtually every measurement of human well-being.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

All those successful Nordic countries do most of the shit you freaks call communist already. So them.

So does Hawaii.
You can pull it off if you make a killing on tourism or oil.

 

[brothir]

Lol what? Where did I do that?
Also, just plainly biased thinking. Does that same criteria also apply to praising the good in the west? "Feeling good about the US also requires glossing over the regime's genocide of the natives and institutional slavery". Just an obviously wacky and out there way of thinking, that you obviously don't apply evenly on both sides.

There are other measurements that are much more useful for determining human well-being. Relative wealth is a measure that broadly gestures at those other measures. Relative wealth is a statistic that indicates other statistics. There are countries with higher per capita GDP than the US. There are also countries with lower per capita GDP, that beat us in virtually every measurement of human well-being.

It could be subconscious on your part. We're also talking about present day. China is an authoritarian regime today, so any comment about how well they're doing should be done with that in mind. I don't see how you can give them credit for anything better than middling results in terms of how prosperous the median Chinese person is, and then you have to subtract the oppressive nature of their society from their well-being. What other, more useful measurements are there that evidences of China out-competing the average Western nation?

 

[Rod1]

Sure, context is important. The US has still had 4-5x more time to develop and industrialize than China has had. I'm sure China would have loved to have the opportunity to industrialize when the west was. One big problem - the West was destabilizing them by flooding them with opium and waging economic and hot wars. Point is, it's idiotic to be like "oh yeah China is 40 years behind us" while pretending you didn't have a two-century head start. I'm sure that same dude thinks racial wealth inequality doesn't exist

Weird how that didn't stop Japan, South Korea and Taiwan

 

[blackheart]

Weird how that didn't stop Japan, South Korea and Taiwan

Weird how all three of those countries industrialized with the direct aid of the world's largest economy. Japan in particular, basically receiving an Asian Marshall Plan.

 

[blackheart]

It could be subconscious on your part. We're also talking about present day. China is an authoritarian regime today,

China is an authoritarian regime, yet has fewer people in prison with their freedom taken away, both per capita and in total.

Hey buddy, how many regime change wars or coups has China done? How many Iraqis are dead from China? How many regimes in Latin America or Africa has China overthrown?

China is authoritarian, and America is the land of freedom, yet America has more people with their freedom taken away, and they have slaughtered millions of innocent people via regime change wars and CIA coups. Make it make sense dude.

so any comment about how well they're doing should be done with that in mind.

Ok, I'm fine by abiding whatever the logic is. But you have to apply the logic evenly on both sides. You are now only aloud to praise the US if you also condemn the authoritarianism of the US at the same time.

I don't see how you can give them credit for anything better than middling results in terms of how prosperous the median Chinese person is,

Going from an agrarian backwater, to the world's #2 economy in just 50 years, while also lifting 800 million people out of poverty, is so far beyond "middling". If you actually care about maximizing human well-being, then it is obviously one of the greatest human achievements in the history of our species.

and then you have to subtract the oppressive nature of their society from their well-being. What other, more useful measurements are there that evidences of China out-competing the average Western nation?

Home ownership is one of the cornerstones of human safety, prosperity, and well-being. In China it is 90%. In the US it is under 50%.

It's pretty clear at this point that your reasoning is completely motivated by nationalism and xenophobia. That's really all this is. As I'm illustrating with data point after data point, your jingoistic nonsense is exactly that - jingoistic nonsense. It's a narrative you've bought into. My country good. China bad. When you actually examine the data, it's pretty clear that YOU are living in the world's most authoritarian regime.

More people in prison than any country on earth. Both per capita and TOTAL.

USA: 5% of global population, 20% of global prisoners
China: 18% of global population, 17-19% of global prisoners

But you're the freedom loving good guy and they're the evil authoritarian bad guys? Ahahaha, fuck off.

 

[Rod1]

Weird how all three of those countries industrialized with the direct aid of the world's largest economy. Japan in particular, basically receiving an Asian Marshall Plan.

By direct aid you mean two atomic bombs and the firebombing of Tokyo?

Japan was already a global power before the "Asian Marshall plan" that's how they managed to wage war against America in the first place. South Korea was poorer than Zimbabwe in the 70s, the fuck are you talking about?

The reason China is 40 years behind is because Mao disastrous 5 year plan and the following cultural revolution, if it had been Deng Xiaoping at the helm from the beginning, China would be on par with the West or close to it.

 

[no fat chicks]

By direct aid you mean two atomic bombs and the firebombing of Tokyo?

Japan was already a global power before the "Asian Marshall plan" that's how they managed to wage war against America in the first place. South Korea was poorer than Zimbabwe in the 70s, the fuck are you talking about?

The reason China is 40 years behind is because Mao disastrous 5 year plan and the following cultural revolution, if it had been Deng Xiaoping at the helm from the beginning, China would be on par with the West or close to it.

I never get the logic of USA bad = China good.

They both suck a lot in many ways.