International Hiroshima was NOT a mistake

[My Spot]

That's not exactly an easy decision. It's a moral dilemma.

Because civilian lives and combatant lives aren't treated the same under modern war doctrine. American soldiers have certainly died in Iraq and Afghanistan because of military rules of engagement designed to limit civilian causalities.

And I'm sure there was a military planner or two who argued that totally unshackling the military would have allowed the them to quickly put down any insurgency and that would have resulted in few overall civilian causalities than 15 years of quagmire. And maybe that would have been the case. But it's a slippery slope and you can take that road down some really dark paths (don't have a bomb? Why not allow your soldiers to pillage and massacre entire towns with total surrender being the condition to end the brutality. Is that justified if it ends a war faster and saves lives?)

 

[DanSavage]

ITT I learned that killing civilians during war is just fine… Im starting to think that Hamas leadership learned a thing or two from the US?

Funny enough, most of the people in this thread justifying the wholesale slaughter of tens of thousands of women and children in Japan have cited Hamas’ targeting of women and children as the unforgivable sin that justifies Israel killing thousands of women and children in Palestine.

Does Hamas warn of impending attacks like the US did before firebombing Japanese cities and like what Israel does for Gaza civilians?

 

[giusti825]

Imagine the President justifying a “few Americans dying” to save Japanese lives. Consider the context of the time; everyone has the benefit of hindsight and an absence of the fog of war today. So it’s easy to “know” the best decision for the best outcome. I would say the average American in 1944 gave no fucks about a few million Japanese dying vs even 1 American dying.

It’s also not like the Japanese were any less evil in China ffs.

Humans are humans.

Every loss of life is equally as tragic.

People thinking one life is more important than another based on immutable characteristics is the most disgusting human trait.

It's how idiots get propagandized into killing the innocent.

 

[USA!USA!]

I think you can believe that it did in fact save lives, while also having the belief that it was a horrible thing to do to the civilians who were killed as a result.

Life is complicated. Not everything is black and white. The vast majority of people who died as a result had nothing to do with the war effort and were not decision makers.

That is always the cost of war. Innocents always die. Always.

 

[giusti825]

Before the bombs were dropped.... Were ALL of Japanese forces pulled out of Australia, Korea, Nanking, and Philippines? I've heard many different things from people.

Edit: OK forget I mentioned Australia. The Japanese got beat back and failed at taking over there.

Even if defeat wasn't yet complete, defeat was a certainty over a matter of time. Firebombs were more effective immediately.

The use of nukes was an unnecessary show of force. The fact it was used against civilians is more disgusting.

The fact we had it and didn't use it against Germany shows how we knew it could do generational harm and avoided using it in Europe.

Apparently, European lives are more important.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Half the population turning into blood thirsty psychopaths was not on my 2024 bingo card.

It's crazy how many people seem to just be thrilled to think about other people getting obliterated right now.

 

[Mike Hagger]

The fact we had it and didn't use it against Germany shows how we knew it could do generational harm and avoided using it in Europe.

Do you have a source confirming the bombs were ready prior to Germany’s surrender? I didn’t think they were, also I do think Roosevelt targeted certain German cities for potential use if the war did not end.

 

[Mike Hagger]

Every loss of life is equally as tragic.

You would consider the death of Joseph Stalin equally as tragic to a child killed in Hiroshima? Maybe Charles Manson dying is equal to mother Tressa? Cmon this is some shit people say but it’s simply not true in reality.

 

[giusti825]

It's vile and disgusting, but I don't see how it's any more vile and disgusting than all the civilians killed and people forced to fight in conventional warfare

Fallout and radiation poisoning makes it far more disgusting.

People who weren't even alive during the war are paying the price.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Hah. 3 Body Problem was written by a Chinese author.
I think you'll find that globally the idea that "nuking the Japanese saved an ever increasing estimated number of lives" is largely regarded as just more American bullshit.
You're just getting exposed to global opinion.

Well… I don’t think the Chinese would be one of those that disagrees with our decision though.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Imagine the President justifying a “few Americans dying” to save Japanese lives. Consider the context of the time; everyone has the benefit of hindsight and an absence of the fog of war today. So it’s easy to “know” the best decision for the best outcome. I would say the average American in 1944 gave no fucks about a few million Japanese dying vs even 1 American dying.

It’s also not like the Japanese were any less evil in China ffs.

This is extra true when you realize that when the decision to use the bomb was made, they didn’t fully understand the impact it would have. We know about things like the fallout and radiation burns because they were used. It’s Monday morning quarterbacking after learning the rules.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Context. Do you understand it?

No. No he does not.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Humans are humans.

Every loss of life is equally as tragic.

People thinking one life is more important than another based on immutable characteristics is the most disgusting human trait.

It's how idiots get propagandized into killing the innocent.

Yeah this post sounds great if you pat yourself on the back for being such a good guy and ignore all practical reality

 

[nostradumbass]

 

[Mike Hagger]

This is extra true when you realize that when the decision to use the bomb was made, they didn’t fully understand the impact it would have. We know about things like the fallout and radiation burns because they were used. It’s Monday morning quarterbacking after learning the rules.

I had read 85% of Americans supported using the bombs in 1945, by like the 60s it was half or less I’m sure today it’s even less. The more people knew the less they liked it.

I think 100% Thurman makes a different play knowing what we know. Rightfully so, he can have the option to drop atomic bombs and not elect to use that capability. I think there was also a political narrative that potentially drove his decision. Telling a dead marines father in 1946 you didn’t go with the bombs because a mass murder of Japanese would ensue. I just think that’s not going go over well in America at that time for sure.

Personally I’d say both bombs were a mistake but I have empathy for then complexity of this particular decision for sure.

 

[Blayt7hh]

I had read 85% of Americans supported using the bombs in 1945, by like the 60s it was half or less I’m sure today it’s even less. The more people knew the less they liked it.

I think 100% Thurman makes a different play knowing what we know. Rightfully so, he can have the option to drop atomic bombs and not elect to use that capability. I think there was also a political narrative that potentially drove his decision. Telling a dead marines father in 1946 you didn’t go with the bombs because a mass murder of Japanese would ensue. I just think that’s not going go over well in America at that time for sure.

Personally I’d say both bombs were a mistake but I have empathy for then complexity of this particular decision for sure.

If we are using our full knowledge in retrospect, I still don’t think it was a mistake. More like an awful decision with only bad choices.

It was terrible but so were the Japanese people in 1945. It was a completely militarized and brainwashed population. All the posters in here that are bashing America for it don’t seem to grasp what Japan was actually like in the 1940s

 

[Seano]

If we are using our full knowledge in retrospect, I still don’t think it was a mistake. More like an awful decision with only bad choices.

It was terrible but so were the Japanese people in 1945. It was a completely militarized and brainwashed population. All the posters in here that are bashing America for it don’t seem to grasp what Japan was actually like in the 1940s

It was also a lesson to all of mankind of the destruction we're capable of unleashing on each other.

 

[Jeffy37]

Watching 'Three Body Problem.' No spoilers:

Big expensive project is going on and one of the characters said something to the effect of 'the last time smart people got in the room and had unlimited funds, they gave us HIROSHIMA!'

As if it's the big bad thing that all of humanity has done. You hear it quite frequently- with all the historical revisionism that's going on- that Hiroshima was some gigantic atrocity. It was not.

WWII was TOTAL WAR. None of us in our times of peace have any idea. And if the situation arose again, where the entire world was in play, are these soft headed historically ignorant people saying that we would not repeat the action to save potentially millions of lives-- even those of the enemy?

It's ridiculous.

An assault on Japan proper would likely have resulted in, depending on who you ask, an additional 3M to 30M casualties. It was the correct choice.

Yes it was because of a Okinawa. The loss of life in that battle

 

[Mike Hagger]

If we are using our full knowledge in retrospect, I still don’t think it was a mistake. More like an awful decision with only bad choices.

It was terrible but so were the Japanese people in 1945. It was a completely militarized and brainwashed population. All the posters in here that are bashing America for it don’t seem to grasp what Japan was actually like in the 1940s

Possibly but with the Soviet invasion underway I think it’s possible the Emperor was going to surrender sooner than later. However, who knows right? Japan did not surrender after Hiroshima, actually their generals pressed to continue the war concluding the Americans may not have more. But you’re right I think a lot of people have a wave top understanding of Japan from 1900-1945. I’ve actually seen posters here blame the US for Japanese eventual thirst for power. Obviously they’re right, what is terrible and not americas fault?

 

[Blayt7hh]

Possibly but with the Soviet invasion underway I think it’s possible the Emperor was going to surrender sooner than later. However, who knows right? Japan did not surrender after Hiroshima, actually their generals pressed to continue the war concluding the Americans may not have more. But you’re right I think a lot of people have a wave top understanding of Japan from 1900-1945. I’ve actually seen posters here blame the US for Japanese eventual thirst for power. Obviously they’re right, what is terrible and not americas fault?

The Emperor didn’t really have the power to surrender on his own, nor do I think he really knew what was going on. I read about it years ago, but basically the war cabinet that ran the country was split on surrendering or fighting to the death after the bombs were dropped and the ones that wanted to surrender pulled some shenanigans using the emperor to get it done.

Even after the surrender was made the messaging that was broadcast out was confusing. The Japanese soldiers on the front didn’t understand it and a lot of them thought they were supposed to keep fighting.