News Do you blame Universities, Student Loan companies, or students?

Jack Reacheround said:
Neither. I blame the federal government. They used to provide funding for universities and state colleges. That no longer really happens. That’s probably the biggest reason tuition prices have gone through the roof.

And who do you think voted for that funding to be redirected? Boomers. But only after they took advantage of it and went to college cheap.
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Of course, what better way to tax your population by setting a goal post as a minimum requirement to getting a job in some industries, brilliant idea........
 
everybody gets some blame. I took loans knowing I'd likely have no way to pay them back, and I wasn't no kid, I was 37. However, that's how things are run, they offer you nothing but shitty options and they know you'll most likely take one. It was either go to the university that I was accepted into or just keep right on with the shitty, part time, 10 hours a week minimum wage jobs.

the propoganda deserves a lot of blame too, parents, teachers all of them. but in my case, I knew what I was doing and never expected to ever get a good real job and i never have. i do delivery today and I don't need much education to do that.
 
IDL said:
As with most things, this can look both good and bad.

You could view such a move as "placing barriers to lower income students" and thus favoring the rich

But it could also address the problem.
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All students are low income or no income. The kids with rich parents aren't taking out student loans.

The main reason you can't wipe out student loan debt with bankruptcy is because they can't repossess or foreclose on their degree.

The main snag on that is that it probably wouldn't stop them from giving the loans because they're backed by the government, so the lender would still get their money, it would just be all of us picking up the tab.

The government isn't going to stop backing loans because it would be republicans who suggest it, and of course democrats would then run everywhere "see, republicans are evil anti-education and don't want your kids to be educated", and you know that's true.

My half kidding solution from government that democrats couldn't really attack is a law that says employers who require a degree for a position are required to additionally pay a portion of the employee’s student debt payment. That is to say, pay the same salary whether the person has a degree or not, but additionally have to pay like 1/3 or 1/2 of the debt payment or something. I think we'd find pretty quickly that jobs that don't actually require a degree or specialized knowledge would stop demanding one anyway, and would instead be more willing to hire someone without a degree to save the money, and the jobs that do actually require a degree would be across the board anyway so they'd likely just build that into the salary offer.
 
aerius said:
Lending is a 2-way street, it's the responsibility of a lender to do some due diligence and not make dumbass loans to people who have little to no chance of ever paying it back. The mortgage meltdown of 2008 wouldn't have happened if banks didn't make a boatload of million dollar loans to people with part time minimum wage jobs, no assets, and no hope in hell of ever paying them back (we called them NINJA loans - no income, no job, or assets). Is the borrower at fault for taking out a loan he can't or has no intention of ever paying back? Sure. But a big chunk of the blame also rests with the lender for making such a loan available in the first place. I can't really get pissed at a homeless meth addict if I lend him $1000 and never get it back, I knew what I was doing so the fault lies just as much with me as it does with him.
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The government backing the loans means the lenders can't lose so there is no incentive to check into what the student is doing.
 
nostradumbass said:
All students are low income or no income. The kids with rich parents aren't taking out student loans.

The main reason you can't wipe out student loan debt with bankruptcy is because they can't repossess or foreclose on their degree.

The main snag on that is that it probably wouldn't stop them from giving the loans because they're backed by the government, so the lender would still get their money, it would just be all of us picking up the tab.

The government isn't going to stop backing loans because it would be republicans who suggest it, and of course democrats would then run everywhere "see, republicans are evil anti-education and don't want your kids to be educated", and you know that's true.

My half kidding solution from government that democrats couldn't really attack is a law that says employers who require a degree for a position are required to additionally pay a portion of the employee’s student debt payment. That is to say, pay the same salary whether the person has a degree or not, but additionally have to pay like 1/3 or 1/2 of the debt payment or something. I think we'd find pretty quickly that jobs that don't actually require a degree or specialized knowledge would stop demanding one anyway, and would instead be more willing to hire someone without a degree to save the money, and the jobs that do actually require a degree would be across the board anyway so they'd likely just build that into the salary offer.
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The company that I worked for was started by a man who only had a sixth grade education. It was built up by his son who only had a 12th grade education and turned it into a multi-million dollar company. When he died, his children, who all went to college, just wanted to cash out so the business was sold. The company that bought it wanted managers with college degrees. It didn't matter what the degree was for so they went through managers who had no clue how to run it.
 
The most important thing I want to interject is that education should be completley and totally untied to financial return and education is supposed to be about education. The people blaming people for not going to college with a plan to make money are the people who are responsible for our dystopia When education is an "investment" it means only people with bad intentions to make money are going to be able to go. And it's led to a corporate domination of education and is a big part of why we find ourselves where we are in 2023.

This is part of how the legal system got dominated by the federalist society. Cause right wingers would have a much easier time justifying the decision to go to law school than lefties. I went to law school with a free ride and still have 60k in loans from housing because the school forced me to rent(another human right). But the point was the most marginalizing experience of my life because there were no like minded people. Only people who are okay with the regime and current order are going to be willing to go. And this is one of the main reasons I believe the US govt can no longer be reformed.

College its not as bad mostly because of the idea people are supposed to go to college. And they are supposed to go to college. That should not be pushed back on. They aren't supposed to have to pay anything more than a nominal fee for it.
 
ferrisjso said:
The most important thing I want to interject is that education should be completley and totally untied to financial return and education is supposed to be about education. The people blaming people for not going to college with a plan to make money are the people who are responsible for our dystopia When education is an "investment" it means only people with bad intentions to make money are going to be able to go. And it's led to a corporate domination of education and is a big part of why we find ourselves where we are in 2023.
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You raise a very good point, and after thinking about it I tend to agree. Lots of folks including myself have often criticized the "useless" courses offered by universities such as leisure studies or early Mesopotamian history since there's little relevance to any job that one is likely to hold after graduation. As you pointed out this would be looking at it from the investment & business point of view, as in what does one get in return for taking those courses?

But if we view education as a pure learning experience where students can learn about things which they'd otherwise never be exposed to, well, that changes a lot of things doesn't it? Universities usually have large archives of rare books, music, papers, and other materials along with researchers & staff with deep, specialized knowledge in all kinds of esoteric subjects, it's a giant collection of knowledge along with the people who can make sense of it and teach it to others. If I want to learn about the history of Ukrainian folk dances or how magnets really work, there's gonna be someone at my local University who's an expert on that stuff and can teach it to me and help guide me on my journey of discovery.

Once again, thanks for your post, and thank you for reminding us what learning & education is really about.
 
It's clearly the fault of the educational system.

The children are only making the mistake of falling into this scam/trap because they're being poorly educated.
 
William Munny said:
I'm certain many of us here have gone to college and pursued a "higher education" of some sort and can relate to this topic. And I'm even more certain many of us are still paying off our student loans, still today.

Lately, especially over the last five or so years, politicians have made an effort to address outrageous student Loan interest rates and debt. There have even been some programs to "forgive" student loan debt.

Upon graduation, with a mere bachelor's degree many students face over 50K in debt, grad students ,over 6 figures of debt.

It seems, right out of the gate, students who graduate are immersed in debt.

who do you find at fault for this issue?

Do you blame universities and their outrageous tuition costs?
  • Tuition and fees at private National Universities have jumped about 132%.
  • Out-of-state tuition and fees at public National Universities have risen about 127%.
  • In-state tuition and fees at public National Universities soared by about 158%.
Do you blame Loan organizations and their interest rates?

or do you blame the Student? do you believe "they should have read the fine print before agreeing to a loan?"

what are your thoughts on the matter, personal experiences?

edit: I don't know how to add a poll.
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It all started with federally backed student loans. After they were guaranteed, schools knew they could continue to increase tuition exponentially.
 
William Munny said:
I'm certain many of us here have gone to college and pursued a "higher education" of some sort and can relate to this topic. And I'm even more certain many of us are still paying off our student loans, still today.

Lately, especially over the last five or so years, politicians have made an effort to address outrageous student Loan interest rates and debt. There have even been some programs to "forgive" student loan debt.

Upon graduation, with a mere bachelor's degree many students face over 50K in debt, grad students ,over 6 figures of debt.

It seems, right out of the gate, students who graduate are immersed in debt.

who do you find at fault for this issue?

Do you blame universities and their outrageous tuition costs?
  • Tuition and fees at private National Universities have jumped about 132%.
  • Out-of-state tuition and fees at public National Universities have risen about 127%.
  • In-state tuition and fees at public National Universities soared by about 158%.
Do you blame Loan organizations and their interest rates?

or do you blame the Student? do you believe "they should have read the fine print before agreeing to a loan?"

what are your thoughts on the matter, personal experiences?

edit: I don't know how to add a poll.
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The parents
 
The students are the least to blame in all this and the type of people I see regularly shifting blame to them have no soul. Sure, there are plenty of kids who get degrees that aren't financial winners. But we are talking about 17 year olds. They can't be expected to make great future life decisions at that age and they have been raised in a system that pressures them to go to college and pursue their passions.

The blame falls both on schools and the government. The schools for being greedy and inefficient and the government for the lack of regulation. This is clearly an issue the free market can't solve.
 
You left out the PARENTS.

All 4 are to blame. But kids are probably the least to blame. They really gave loans to a bunch of 18-19 years olds like that. Most of those kids wouldn’t even qualify for a new 25k car with no credit let alone 100k in student loans lol.
 
I have two thoughts.

1. For many, higher education is the most reasonable path towards a better life. Thus, higher education is a necessity for those individuals who seek social/economic/intellectual advancement.

2. Knowing that for many, higher education is the most reasonable path towards a better life, it is a most reasonable expectation that higher education institutions with $50 billion+ endowments will not fleece the most vulnerable advancement seekers.
 
I think there's blame on all sides. The tuition is too high because the universities have no incentive to make it affordable, and they have tenured professors making a lot of money to teach 1 or 2 classes. The loan companies are obviously taking advantage of the situation with high interest rates and unfavorable terms. And, the students are not doing their due diligence on these loans, and they are many times spending large amounts of money to get worthless and sometimes multiple degrees. Then complaining that they were taken advantage of. And where are the parents or other trusted adults like guidance counselors that should be helping these kids with this stuff?
 
Federal Student Loans combined with the extraordinary push by all levels of US society (both public & private) telling children that college was 100% essential.

Seriously, I can't think of anything aside from MAYBE smoking that received this level of public messaging to my generation.
 
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