Article: The Machida Era Begins...My Most Recent Article

[CHOCOLATE MIKE]

Its interesting two of todays best fighters "lyoto machida and GSP" are very skilled in karate. Maybe this means something

[rugdoctor276]

Great read.... Mir is really good at explaining MMA ..... its the same concept as Karo he was great and Judo and was one of the few ppl to implament it into the game as well as he did. Its a differnt fighting style not to mention his judo throws are the best, best throws in the world, all the other throws are done by little girls. Buts its just like mir said there are 3 aspects to a fight and THE DRAGON is using ones that other people arent used to and he is tearing ppl up.

[Cokane]

Great contributions thus far!

I want to bring up the psychological aspect of fighting Machida and the problems he presents from that persepctive, and ask the excellent contributors what they think of this.

Both Thiago Silva, in pre-fight interviews (UFC countdown), and Rashad Evans in a post-fight interview (dont have the source im afraid) talked of the psychological problems of facing Machida. I am paraphrasing here, but Silva said something along the lines of "Machida gets into your head and grinds you down before you even step into the ring - I wont let this happen". Evans also alluded to similar issues prior to fighting Machida. He stated that he was "...losing to Lyoto even in my pre-fight dreams - and that never happened to me before" (again paraphrasing).

Now, I am not suggesting that Machida is deploying some weird jedi mind trick on his opponents, but there is clearly something about his style and way of fighting that really genuinely unnerves even elite fighters like Silva and Evans and their camps: Greg Jackson also spoke of trying to 'unlock' Machida's style and how great a challenge he would be.

So my question is, do you guys think that Machida's style, and the problems it presents, causes opponents to tie themselves in knots worrying about how they will counter it? Do opponents focus so much on Machida when preparing to face him, that they forget about their own strengths and skills? And does Machidas perfect record, combined with his ability to almost completely avoid damage mean that he walks into the ring facing men who are already half beaten?

[Boganzo]

Originally Posted by Cokane

Great contributions thus far!

I want to bring up the psychological aspect of fighting Machida and the problems he presents from that persepctive, and ask the excellent contributors what they think of this.

Both Thiago Silva, in pre-fight interviews (UFC countdown), and Rashad Evans in a post-fight interview (dont have the source im afraid) talked of the psychological problems of facing Machida. I am paraphrasing here, but Silva said something along the lines of "Machida gets into your head and grinds you down before you even step into the ring - I wont let this happen". Evans also alluded to similar issues prior to fighting Machida. He stated that he was "...losing to Lyoto even in my pre-fight dreams - and that never happened to me before" (again paraphrasing).

Now, I am not suggesting that Machida is deploying some weird jedi mind trick on his opponents, but there is clearly something about his style and way of fighting that really genuinely unnerves even elite fighters like Silva and Evans and their camps: Greg Jackson also spoke of trying to 'unlock' Machida's style and how great a challenge he would be.

So my question is, do you guys think that Machida's style, and the problems it presents, causes opponents to tie themselves in knots worrying about how they will counter it? Do opponents focus so much on Machida when preparing to face him, that they forget about their own strengths and skills? And does Machidas perfect record, combined with his ability to almost completely avoid damage mean that he walks into the ring facing men who are already half beaten?

This is actually very interesting. I hadn't given it much thought until you brought it up, but I thought about what you said a little bit and here is my hypothesis.

I do think that Machida gets into the head of his opponents, specifically Thiago and Rashad because both of them kind of took the approach that Machida could be "exposed" once his enigma was solved. I think both guys honestly believed that Machida had gotten lucky against opponents who would not take the fight to him or would allow him to play his point sparring game.

I think Thiago believed that he could enforce his will and that Machida deters aggressive strikers early by making them gun shy with counters. From there, Machida has full reign because he saps the other fighters confidence to lead an offense. From there the fighter goes into defensive mode and just gets picked apart. Thiago I think, felt he could avoid this, by rushing Machida and going for an early knockout, or by simply not getting deterred by punishment.

Rashad I think too, wasn't impressed with Machida and I think he felt he was faster and more explosive. Everyone applauds Greg Jackson's camp, and I don't know what there exact strategy was, but I bet it was to rely on simply catching Machida coming in with one power hit. They figured that it would only take one to knock Machida out and they doubted Machida would be able to knock out Rashad. With that in mind, I bet they focused entirely on speed and throwing incredibly quick one two combos at best.


I would not call Rashad a strategist. His biggest asset in the ring is his athleticism, let's face it. Generally what Rashad does is go out and enforce his will, aside from the Chuck bout, where I believe again, Greg Jackson convinced Rashad, and rightfully so, he could outspeed the older puncher.

Rashad's most "strategic" fight was probably against Bonnar in which Rashad was outclassed on the feet by BONNAR and had to lay on him for very disappointing and lackluster fight. He was smart to take it to the ground you could tell Rashad didn't know how to handle Bonnar's standup game and he looked flustered and defensive on the ground, even on top. To me, it was the boxing equivalent of rushing to clinch your opponent and then just holding on to "control your opponent" and "avoid punishment."

Rashad was fed a few cans that awarded him some knockouts, but even against those people like Salmon, he did not dominate the standup.

Now here's how I think that got into Rashad's head.

Ok, remember how when Chuck was on top everyone criticized his style and said he was just waiting to be knocked out by a technical or faster striker? And so you saw a lot of grapplers try to outbox him because they literally thought that even though Chuck had power, it was simply his awkward style that made him dangerous, and guys like Babalu, Tito, and Horn all thought they could trade with him and that they were close in striking skill to him.

But the fact of the matter is they did the dumb thing and didn't fight their fight. Never fight where you don't feel comfortable. But I think their trainers, and their egos allowed them to think that they could close the gap in skill between themselves and Chuck.

The same thing is happened to Rashad I think. He had some nice knockouts and suddenly his coaches and everyone thinks he can outstrike Lyoto and Lyoto has just been "lucky" in his fights and is "unproven." Rashad goes out and practices only striking, doesn't look to set up his takedowns or anything. I think as Rashad began to train he likely noticed some holes in his own boxing and striking. It probably felt awkward to him, and he was also training not to use his biggest asset- his wrestling.

When you are that serious about fighting all you do is pick apart your own mistakes and I bet that began to happen. You ask yourself a million what ifs and Rashad probably began to feel some pressure in having to outstrike the striker. You always assume you're going to perform to your worst performance during a fight and the other guy will perform his best. I think Rashad was more nervous for this fight because he had more to prove in an area he was most awkward and weak in against a fighter who many feel is impossible to even hit.

And here's another thing. I actually bet Rashad knew, at least deep down, his gameplan was bad. It left him no room to do anything different if the fight began to go Lyoto's way. Did Rashad attempt takedowns after getting into trouble? No. because of this, I think Rashad was extra nervous because he knew that if his plan failed he wouldn't have much to fall back on. But of course, when you are fighting, you want to win and so you push those fears aside.


Anyways, I think in the end Rashad was too confident in his abilities prior to the fight and then ignored his own fears and concerns later, so he was not properly prepared for this fight and I think he knows it.

[Rambamatic]

Originally Posted by Cokane

Great contributions thus far!

I want to bring up the psychological aspect of fighting Machida and the problems he presents from that persepctive, and ask the excellent contributors what they think of this.

Both Thiago Silva, in pre-fight interviews (UFC countdown), and Rashad Evans in a post-fight interview (dont have the source im afraid) talked of the psychological problems of facing Machida. I am paraphrasing here, but Silva said something along the lines of "Machida gets into your head and grinds you down before you even step into the ring - I wont let this happen". Evans also alluded to similar issues prior to fighting Machida. He stated that he was "...losing to Lyoto even in my pre-fight dreams - and that never happened to me before" (again paraphrasing).

Now, I am not suggesting that Machida is deploying some weird jedi mind trick on his opponents, but there is clearly something about his style and way of fighting that really genuinely unnerves even elite fighters like Silva and Evans and their camps: Greg Jackson also spoke of trying to 'unlock' Machida's style and how great a challenge he would be.

So my question is, do you guys think that Machida's style, and the problems it presents, causes opponents to tie themselves in knots worrying about how they will counter it? Do opponents focus so much on Machida when preparing to face him, that they forget about their own strengths and skills? And does Machidas perfect record, combined with his ability to almost completely avoid damage mean that he walks into the ring facing men who are already half beaten?

This is a great question, and one that I think deserves some thought.

Here is my take on it just as an initial reaction:

The mental problems stem from the interconnection of three different factors:

1. He is undefeated (and not only undefeated, but has maybe only lost 2 ROUNDS in his entire career). This presents a big problem because there is no evidence available to view in training that would allow the fighter and trainer preparing to fight him to see a weakness and how that weakness was exploited. There is just a lack of available material on HOW to beat him that can be observed and built around.

2. He is a complete fighter. Very few fighters are as competent at every phase of the fight game, and well rounded as Machida is. Normally, a fighter has a range of the fight game where he has weaknesses (i.e. the clinch, technial JuJitsu, Boxing, etc.), and in preparing to fight him, his opponent's training will, many times, focus on how to take that fighter out of his element and into the phase of the fight where he's weak. With Machida, that's darn near impossible because he's so good at every phase of the game. What weaknesses he does have are very small and very hard to exploit because he can transition into any other phase quickly and efficiently.

3. His stand up game is unique. This is very big. As guys like Rashad get into training sessions and start to put together their stand up plans, they can't find guys who do what Machida does in order to train properly. Knowing that takes a psychological toll as the camp progresses...(i.e. you don't have the ability to really prep an in depth stand up game properly because nobody in the MMA world teaches or practices or trains in the style that he does, it can get nerve wracking).

[Rambamatic]

Originally Posted by Boganzo

This is actually very interesting. I hadn't given it much thought until you brought it up, but I thought about what you said a little bit and here is my hypothesis.

I do think that Machida gets into the head of his opponents, specifically Thiago and Rashad because both of them kind of took the approach that Machida could be "exposed" once his enigma was solved. I think both guys honestly believed that Machida had gotten lucky against opponents who would not take the fight to him or would allow him to play his point sparring game.

I think Thiago believed that he could enforce his will and that Machida deters aggressive strikers early by making them gun shy with counters. From there, Machida has full reign because he saps the other fighters confidence to lead an offense. From there the fighter goes into defensive mode and just gets picked apart. Thiago I think, felt he could avoid this, by rushing Machida and going for an early knockout, or by simply not getting deterred by punishment.

Rashad I think too, wasn't impressed with Machida and I think he felt he was faster and more explosive. Everyone applauds Greg Jackson's camp, and I don't know what there exact strategy was, but I bet it was to rely on simply catching Machida coming in with one power hit. They figured that it would only take one to knock Machida out and they doubted Machida would be able to knock out Rashad. With that in mind, I bet they focused entirely on speed and throwing incredibly quick one two combos at best.


I would not call Rashad a strategist. His biggest asset in the ring is his athleticism, let's face it. Generally what Rashad does is go out and enforce his will, aside from the Chuck bout, where I believe again, Greg Jackson convinced Rashad, and rightfully so, he could outspeed the older puncher.

Rashad's most "strategic" fight was probably against Bonnar in which Rashad was outclassed on the feet by BONNAR and had to lay on him for very disappointing and lackluster fight. He was smart to take it to the ground you could tell Rashad didn't know how to handle Bonnar's standup game and he looked flustered and defensive on the ground, even on top. To me, it was the boxing equivalent of rushing to clinch your opponent and then just holding on to "control your opponent" and "avoid punishment."

Rashad was fed a few cans that awarded him some knockouts, but even against those people like Salmon, he did not dominate the standup.

Now here's how I think that got into Rashad's head.

Ok, remember how when Chuck was on top everyone criticized his style and said he was just waiting to be knocked out by a technical or faster striker? And so you saw a lot of grapplers try to outbox him because they literally thought that even though Chuck had power, it was simply his awkward style that made him dangerous, and guys like Babalu, Tito, and Horn all thought they could trade with him and that they were close in striking skill to him.

But the fact of the matter is they did the dumb thing and didn't fight their fight. Never fight where you don't feel comfortable. But I think their trainers, and their egos allowed them to think that they could close the gap in skill between themselves and Chuck.

The same thing is happened to Rashad I think. He had some nice knockouts and suddenly his coaches and everyone thinks he can outstrike Lyoto and Lyoto has just been "lucky" in his fights and is "unproven." Rashad goes out and practices only striking, doesn't look to set up his takedowns or anything. I think as Rashad began to train he likely noticed some holes in his own boxing and striking. It probably felt awkward to him, and he was also training not to use his biggest asset- his wrestling.

When you are that serious about fighting all you do is pick apart your own mistakes and I bet that began to happen. You ask yourself a million what ifs and Rashad probably began to feel some pressure in having to outstrike the striker. You always assume you're going to perform to your worst performance during a fight and the other guy will perform his best. I think Rashad was more nervous for this fight because he had more to prove in an area he was most awkward and weak in against a fighter who many feel is impossible to even hit.

And here's another thing. I actually bet Rashad knew, at least deep down, his gameplan was bad. It left him no room to do anything different if the fight began to go Lyoto's way. Did Rashad attempt takedowns after getting into trouble? No. because of this, I think Rashad was extra nervous because he knew that if his plan failed he wouldn't have much to fall back on. But of course, when you are fighting, you want to win and so you push those fears aside.


Anyways, I think in the end Rashad was too confident in his abilities prior to the fight and then ignored his own fears and concerns later, so he was not properly prepared for this fight and I think he knows it.

This is very well put. Nice job.

[Boganzo]

Originally Posted by Rambamatic

This is very well put. Nice job.

We should do a fight breakdown of another fighter with an interesting style. Who is the next to have a great chance against GSP?

I think Thiago has a fair shot.

[0gami]

Originally Posted by Boganzo

We should do a fight breakdown of another fighter with an interesting style. Who is the next to have a great chance against GSP?

I think Thiago has a fair shot.

I had another response to the analysis that you did on Machida's flaws, but suffice to say it was complimentary, and I didn't want to seem to be bashing you earlier in the thread. I'd like to see an Alves thread, actually.

[SL55T0T0]

Something tells me Lyoto will reign supreme for ages, maybe 5 or 6 more fights hes just that good even Anderson agrees

HELP, can someone please tell me what that song they play on the Sherdog radio show is called? the one that goes something like "Dont you know i think ive seen that roll of dough,rolling down from coast to coast" or something like that! heres the clip!
Thanks in advanced peeps
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[dodgrfan33]

The one thing that makes mma so different is that its a revolving door. Maybe it is Karate time maybe its not. Machida has only really dominatly used his KO karate skills in his last two fight. He is still a long way away from climaxing I believe. Tito and Penn both took him to decision. Lets see if karate is here to stay or its just a ohase. Give Machida 5 more fights and then we can continue this decision