Save
Random Shot: 
 

Welcome to the Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

 

Go Back  Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Fight Discussion > Ask The Fighters > Know thy Athletic Commission:

Reply
 
Sherdog Forums
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-21-2008, 01:34 AM   #1 (permalink)
SBC Underworld Czar
 
King Kabuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Behind you with a lead pipe.
Posts: 22,321
Status: King Kabuki is offline
Send a message via AIM to King Kabuki
Icon1 Know thy Athletic Commission:

Another bit of unsolicited advice from the Sport of Boxing to all Fighters alike, especially in a new Sport like MMA, where things like this may not be known to happen at all routinely.

(Credit to Dr. Margaret Goodman, Chairperson of the Medical Advisory Board for the Nevada State Athletic Commission, and practicing Neurologist in Las Vegas, NV.)

On March 11th of this year, Rafael Ortiz passed away at the age of 30 years-old. With only a handful of press reports, the events surrounding this young man's Death hardly came to light until published in Ring Magazine.

Looking at his record, Ortiz was one of Boxing's very solid and reliable Journeymen, stopped only 4 times in 30 Professional Fights, and all by regional or World Titlists in Michael Lucero, Jesse Feliciano (whom some may remember from The Contender) and former World 140lb Champion Lovemore N'Dou. Ortiz was known for always being in-shape, and willing to fight anyone on a moment's notice, and typically winning by KO when he won. N'Dou beat Ortiz with a liver shot, and upon returning to Atlantic City he was sick with the flu. Like most Fighters (too brave for his own good) Rafael was back in the Gym as soon as possible, without telling anyone how bad he felt.

In Washington, unfortunately the State Department of Licensing is overburdened since the Commission was de-Commissioned. So aside from having to schedule, approve matches, and assign officials, the Department also oversees cosmetologists, barbers, and manicurists. Washington has 3 licensed physicians, one per fight, and typically hosts one or two fight cards per month. Fighters submit yearly physicals and undergo pre and post-fight exams. Washington regulation WAC 36-12-310 states that the event physician examine Fighters and referees, and submit a written report to the inspector disclosing the exam results and subsequent recommendations. It also states that the equipment to be utilized for the pre and post-fight exams should consist of but not be limited to, a blood pressure cuff, otoscope, opthalmoscope, pen light, reflex hammer, stethoscope, thermometer, and tongue depressor (typical Doctor kit).

On March 8th when Ortiz fought, the ring physician Dr. Antoine Johnson was not properly equipped. Rafael went into his Fight with a fever, and another Fighter commented that they didn't receive the pre-fight physicals due to lack of equipment. This was later confirmed by Trudy Touchette, who Administrates the State Department of Licensing, and Barry Druxman (Washington Official and President of International Professional Ring Officials) who was on Judge duty that night. Druxman reported the Doctor's exam consisted of feeling the Fighter's hands, looking in his eyes, asking how he felt, and nothing more. Druxman suggested to the State Officials that the Doctor borrow the attending Ambulance Crew's equipment, nothing was done.

During the Fight, everyone who knew Ortiz (who made his Pro debut in Oregon and was well-regarded in the Northwestern Boxing Community) said something was wrong with him from the start of the bout. Between rounds 6 and 7 he was complaining of inability to breathe. The Doctor checked him, but again didn't have any equipment. After a corner stoppage he was sent to the Hospital. He had a high fever and a cut, he continued to complain of feeling ill and was later admitted to two Hospitals in Oregon. Apparently, Ortiz later died in Oregon Health Services University, of viral myocarditis (inflammation of the Heart muscle) brought on by influenza, the Flu he never quite got over. Had the pre-fight exam been conducted with the proper Medical equipment, the Doctor might have detected Ortiz's irregular breathing and fever.

The moral of the story? Two things:

1) Don't fight sick, at least not with what you know is the Flu. 20 percent of sudden Death in young adults is due to myocarditis, which as you see can be easily brought on by influenza.

2) As a fledgling Fighter you have every right to object to Fighting if attending Officials are ill-equipped or incompetent, or to request more thorough procedures. Afterall, it's your life on the line.

Boxing didn't kill Rafael Ortiz, and it's quite shameful his Death was swept under the proverbial rug. But that perhaps has to do with the failures on many many levels to do the appropriate things to keep him healthy.
__________________
"You Son of a bitch double-crosser. You are no good, your word is no good. Nothing is good about you. You're gonna get hurt, and by hurt, I mean Dead." - Frankie Carbo

Mods Worship the Devil!
King Kabuki is offline  | 
Icon1 Icon1 Icon1 Icon1  
   
Reply With Quote

Old 09-21-2008, 02:01 AM   #2 (permalink)

Brown Belt
 
NasDestiny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Roy Nelson > Andrei Arlovski
Posts: 4,003
Status: NasDestiny is offline
Thank you for that haunting but very real story. Don't quite know what to say other than this story'll more than likely stay with me and hopefully keep me safe.
__________________
7-6 (1 NC) in SPC, 8-24-6 Bettor (SONOFAB*TCH)

Roy Nelson will expose Arlovski. Nelson via Armbar in round 1.
NasDestiny is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 02:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
SBC Underworld Czar
 
King Kabuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Behind you with a lead pipe.
Posts: 22,321
Status: King Kabuki is offline
Send a message via AIM to King Kabuki
Stuff like this happens in Boxing a lot, and that the Sport is as International as it is really isn't a help. Especially Southeast Asia, there's a lot of mismatches and turning the other cheek with guys who really shouldn't be in the ring. Of course, different circumstances both Culturally and economically, so there's different arguments everywhere.

But for it to get swept under here is a little tough to swallow. It's not like anything went wrong IN the ring per se. Just that Rafael shouldn't have been in to begin with. A lot of times that's why things go bad, not because the Sport is any more dangerous than it is or needs new rules.
__________________
"You Son of a bitch double-crosser. You are no good, your word is no good. Nothing is good about you. You're gonna get hurt, and by hurt, I mean Dead." - Frankie Carbo

Mods Worship the Devil!
King Kabuki is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 03:29 AM   #4 (permalink)

White Belt
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 106
Status: Gawd is offline
In this case the equipment mentioned above (a blood pressure cuff, otoscope, opthalmoscope, pen light, reflex hammer, stethoscope, thermometer, and tongue depressor ) would probably not have detected his illness, though a slight fever might have been detected. The only practical way to diagnose a myocarditis is by an ECG.

Unfortunately, any physician is quite dependent on his patient answering questions like "Do you feel fine?" honestly and professional athletes are well known for not wanting to miss out on a competition.
Gawd is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 03:40 AM   #5 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
etherface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chilliwack, british columbia
Posts: 510
Status: etherface is offline
Send a message via MSN to etherface
Last Christmas, I got sick with the flu and somehow the lining of my heart became inflamed. I thought I was having a heartattack at 23 years old. I was in the hospital for 3 days under heavy sedation and anti-inflamatories. It was the worst Christmas I ever had.
__________________
R.I.P. Evan Tanner

I fell in love with fighting because of Evan Tanner vs. Phil Baroni and Evan Tanner vs. Robbie Lawler and I will never forget that as long as I live.
etherface is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 04:17 AM   #6 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
suntancharm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Legalize MMA in Ontario you liberal wussyass government
Posts: 516
Status: suntancharm is offline
Great post TS.
Do we smell a lawsuit coming?
__________________
GSP is going to wreck Penn
suntancharm is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 05:18 AM   #7 (permalink)

White Belt
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 28
Status: southpaw8 is offline
Great post. I'm glad I read it. It brings up some serious questions about the legitimacy of pre-fight exams. However I do agree with previous poster who said that the even with all of the medical instruments the fight probably would not have been stopped. Elevated temperature, high blood pressure, and irregular breathing could all be brought on by pre-fight stress. Really it would be up to the fighter to know its more than just nerves. It's definitely sad that this story did not get more attention. Hopefully. this will teach athletic commissions the importance of pre/post fight screenings. Thanks for posting
southpaw8 is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 09:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
SBC Underworld Czar
 
King Kabuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Behind you with a lead pipe.
Posts: 22,321
Status: King Kabuki is offline
Send a message via AIM to King Kabuki
Quote:
In this case the equipment mentioned above (a blood pressure cuff, otoscope, opthalmoscope, pen light, reflex hammer, stethoscope, thermometer, and tongue depressor ) would probably not have detected his illness, though a slight fever might have been detected. The only practical way to diagnose a myocarditis is by an ECG.
It would have been about identifying that something was wrong. I really don't understand why you'd defend an obviously incompetent Fight Doctor. If he didn't understand that Fighters are notoriously self-destructive, and was satisfied with a relatively quick glance and one question and answer, then he shouldn't have been licensed as a ringside physician. That's not a very simple task, to be handled simply, and unequipped.

I'm not saying the Doctor's not a good Doctor otherwise, but definitely not a good Fight Doctor. Myocarditis can be difficult to detect, sure, but the Flu? Even the Hospital missed the myocarditis initially because they were able to lower his temperature, but he continued to complain of difficulty breathing as well.

Everything went wrong for Rafael. A collection of things. It's not that the collection of said things went right and he died anyway.

Quote:
Elevated temperature, high blood pressure, and irregular breathing could all be brought on by pre-fight stress. Really it would be up to the fighter to know its more than just nerves.
I'm sorry but if a guy has a fever, difficulty breathing, and high blood pressure, then he REALLY shouldn't be in the ring or the cage. There's an old saying in Boxing among referees and physicians who are known to stop Fights too early, which is better too early than too late. Ortiz would have been able to get work again, as stated he was quite the reliable journeyman, which should also indicate that for him, these conditions pre-fight are unusual.
__________________
"You Son of a bitch double-crosser. You are no good, your word is no good. Nothing is good about you. You're gonna get hurt, and by hurt, I mean Dead." - Frankie Carbo

Mods Worship the Devil!
King Kabuki is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2008, 11:49 AM   #9 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 810
Status: dan42183 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasDestiny View Post
Thank you for that haunting but very real story. Don't quite know what to say other than this story'll more than likely stay with me and hopefully keep me safe.
yeah this story will stay with me too, it's good to know what you have the right to do and how it will help you. You never know when knowing your rights could save your life.
__________________
Ridding the Fred Ettish Sitting Legkick Wagon since 1994
dan42183 is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote

Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All Of The Ufc Refs Except Mccarthy Work For Nevada Athletic Commission sonnyboy The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC 7 10-20-2007 11:23 AM
Criminals in the European Commission? ShaolinSubz The War Room 3 06-02-2007 11:41 AM
NJ Athletic Commission Corrects 60 Minutes WandyNutHugs The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC 0 12-16-2006 10:33 AM
Need Help with weight gain (tall and athletic) GnP-4eva Dieting / Supplement Discussion 14 07-22-2006 03:09 PM
Gracie's gi and California Athletic Commission Scotchale The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC 7 03-16-2006 03:53 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version {1. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008 Sherdog.com | Privacy Policy | Click here to advertise on Sherdog