[vince89]

Great post!

[mfugee1234]

great read. my teammate is getting his first mma fight at irvine ca in mid march from some startup company thats putting him through the same crap as you described. its a month and a half away and he dosent know who hes fighting or what the pay is yet. the scout for the new org also videotaped his training session which he called "tryouts" but it seemed really shady and he'll prolly show it to the opponent or something. we'll see how it goes, peace

[King Kabuki]

Well, I'd hoped to get more replies from actual Fighters with either different experiences or instances of things like this happening, but I'll continue this with another thing.

Gym Etiquette:

Boxing has been around long enough that there's a system of do's and don'ts in the Gym. I'll list some things point-by-point, and many of these have happened in my own training recently.

- Favors. It's bad form for a trainer to come directly to you and ask you to work with his Fighters if you're pretty new or if you're trainer isn't around. Trainers know that if they have a Fighter and they're building him up, he shouldn't be agreeing to spar with other guys without them seeing what's going on. If you got a trainer who keeps going behind your trainer's back and coming straight to you, chances are he's assessing you and is probably going to pick a money fight with you later on, when he thinks one of his guys can definitely kick your ass and look good doing it.

- Sandbagging. Some trainers straight up lie about the backgrounds of their Fighters. Next thing you know you're in there with a tank of a Fighter who is teeing off on you. If you think you're being set up to be a punching bag, chances are you're right. Be wary of who you get in there with.

- Control in sessions. Sparring is NOT Fighting. You're not supposed to get mauled or beaten up real bad. Especially if you might be Fighting soon yourself. Sparring is supposed to be fun, a workout, working mostly technique. If you keep finding yourself in sparring WARS chances are people in your Gym think of you as gullible cannon-fodder.

- Trainer, if your trainer doesn't look out for the above...he doesn't give a fuck about you.

[captk]

The fact is it is very rare you get three months notice for a fight when you start out as a pro. That is not realistic. You gotta do what you gotta do to get fights.

As a beginning pro no one will pay your licensing fees. Don't expect them to. Not realistic. Maybe a short notice fight out of your state they will do something to help you. Otherwise you pay all fees to get your license & don't expect anything else.

Paid sparring is not realistic for new pros who don't make any money in the first place. Getting sparring with good pros can be a great benefit so why would you be an ass about it if you need that experience?

Vegas & L.A. & New York may have lots of opportunities & there may be sparring available if you want it. However everywhere else it is a whole different story.

[King Kabuki]

The fact is it is very rare you get three months notice for a fight when you start out as a pro. That is not realistic. You gotta do what you gotta do to get fights.

I disagree. It's that mentality that allows for Promoters to match guys hard in the first place. And it's the difference between a Prospect Fighter and a journeyman. There's a reason Amateur systems exist, there's no reason to kick and scrape for money fights just for sake of experience. But for argument's sake I'm not talking about 3 months notice to GET a fight, I'm talking about guys who HAVE a fight allegedly booked but information on the circumstances is withheld.

Get experience fighting Amateurs, and manage a Pro career minus a sense of desperation, assured you can win most of your bouts.

As a beginning pro no one will pay your licensing fees. Don't expect them to. Not realistic. Maybe a short notice fight out of your state they will do something to help you. Otherwise you pay all fees to get your license & don't expect anything else.

Er, no. Promoters are supposed to pay licensing fees. Unless it's Amateur I've rarely seen otherwise. Licenses can be expensive depending on the size of the Athletic Commission, what's unrealistic is expecting a beginning Fighter to shell out more money in fees than his fight is worth. That's called extortion.

Paid sparring is not realistic for new pros who don't make any money in the first place. Getting sparring with good pros can be a great benefit so why would you be an ass about it if you need that experience?

Again, there's Amateur circuits for experience. There's no reason to be enduring ass kickings for free. If you're part of a good Gym with resident Pros you'll get that sparring anyway, what I'm referring to is those who tour Gyms just for that experience, and help a guy prepare for a money fight, and get nothing but roughed up and a couple tips for their trouble.

Vegas & L.A. & New York may have lots of opportunities & there may be sparring available if you want it. However everywhere else it is a whole different story.

This is true, however, the Sport isn't going to grow as much without guys running their careers smart. Being a Professional is not about simply putting yourself out there. It's assuring you WILL make money, and be able to sustain yourself as a viable entity, without compromising time to do so by taking unnecessary risks.

[captk]

You make absolutely no sense.

"Get experience fighting Amateurs" - that is what you say. What do you do?

"Promoters are supposed to pay licensing fees. Unless it's Amateur I've rarely seen otherwise" is what you say but your experience is what? Sorry man but you don't make any sense. Promoters are generally not going to pay your licensing fees,

A beginner pro has to pay to get his license & then hopes he can make the money back by gettin a fight or two. That's reality.

Really I didn't want to insult you but I read the things you say on this site & it doesn't make any sense when you start talking about this pro stuff. You condradict yourself.

[King Kabuki]

You make absolutely no sense.

I don't see what's so hard to comprehend about Amateur circuits being specifically for building experience. Seems a pretty simple notion to me. In Boxing, Fighters are groomed in the Amateurs from Junior tournaments, to Golden Gloves, to US Nationals, to Olympics, all to forge themselves as Professionals. Those who don't go this route, face harder times but usually get picked up as paid sparring partners for bigger name Pros. Then there are those who just turn Pro with no real guidance, and end up getting screwed over a lot.

If that doesn't make sense to you, I don't know what to tell you.

A beginner pro has to pay to get his license & then hopes he can make the money back by gettin a fight or two. That's reality.

You must have entirely missed this:

On the lower levels, Fighters pay out-of-pocket.

That was part of my initial post. Thanks for reading it thoroughly. That being said there are plenty Promoters who pay Licensing Fees.

Really I didn't want to insult you but I read the things you say on this site & it doesn't make any sense when you start talking about this pro stuff. You condradict yourself.

Yeah I'm aware you don't like me. I remember you from way back when talking about how deceiving the Internet can be and blah blah. And when I asked you who you were regarding your claims of being an Amateur, Pro, trainer, etc., you never did respond.

But since you asked so nicely, my experience is here:

The Return of the King.

[captk]

I never said I don't like you. What I remember is that internet argument I was having was with someone else - not you. I guess he was your buddy. You seem to have a good eye for the sport. As far as actually doing the sport that is a whole other thing. You point me to some link which shows me what? You didn't address the "amateur experience" thing. Quite the politician. Quite the user of the internet.

As I already said - you make no sense & you contradict yourself.

Continue to go round & round with your arguments if you really want but it doesn't change reality & it can't change the things you say on this site. It's easy for people to look up if they really have the desire to do so.

I won't go round & round in foolish internet arguments anymore.

Take care. Protect yourself at all times.

[King Kabuki]

lol Seems as if you responded without even reading a single word, express a statement of general insult, and then pack your lunch pail and leave. Same crap you pulled the first time I asked you who you are.

My statements not changing on this site is perfectly fine with me.

[captk]

Look at the internet genius trying to win his argument.

I asked you what your experience is and you said what? Didn't read the question? Didn't want to answer it?

You want to continue the argument without arguing? Ain't you the genius.

Is this the art of arguing without arguing?? Some real Bruce Lee stuff goin' on here.

You want to say nothing & try to put me down as if you've won something & proved something. So what have you proved?

Boy isn't this worthless garbage a bunch of fun! You sure have proved yourself, huh?! Seems you didn't read a damn thing I said.