Question for Atheists

[Leviathan]

Atheists and religious people can both be incredibly aggressive and dogmatic. I think it is more dependent on the personality than the beliefs.

[Jay Pan ROKK]

Originally Posted by Zeke's Chaingun

I disagree. I don't feel I should respect whatever belief people have. I don't care if someone doesn't act on it themselves, if they believe in virgin sacrifices I will not respect it. An extreme example but a fair one to make the point. I do not respect baseless beliefs. I consider those beliefs lazy.



Why are you asking this question and why are you using the words "Are you sure"? Did I once say anything about this? I am not sure why you even made this comment, but I suspect you did because of previous baggage you're bringing into this conversation?



Not sure what you are talking about and neither am I sure what this has to do with anything we've said to each other on this thread.



Believing in fantasy leaves you not only lazy intellectually but it is also willful ignorance. I think willful ignorance can breed a lot of issues. We are seeing some of it with Creationists who deny facts about scientific discovery and are pushing their dark age ideas to be taught in their place (or alongside). That is a big issue.

If you dont respect some other´s believe you are not yet prepared to live in diverse world.

I asked you about the size of the task, it seems you are not even aware ...

One thing is to try convert few posters in sherdog that care to read your posts, the world is much different.

It is ok to spread scientific achievements but it is not ok to fight against beliefs.

What is the problem of being lazy btw ?

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Originally Posted by Jay Pan ROKK

If you dont respect some other´s believe you are not yet prepared to live in diverse world.

What does that even mean? JPR, you're resorting to saying things that sound profound but really doesn't mean anything. It reminds me of a friend of mine who was arguing with another person, and he got all dramatic and said, "Hey! Different Strokes...... for different... Folks." and acted as if he brought something profound to the discussion.
The above means nothing. People are different, yes, but me not being willing to respect another persons point of view does not mean I am not prepared to live in a diverse world. I DO live in a diverse world and I am functioning fairly well in it.

Originally Posted by Jay Pan ROKK

I asked you about the size of the task, it seems you are not even aware ...

Size of what task?

Originally Posted by Jay Pan ROKK

One thing is to try convert few posters in sherdog that care to read your posts, the world is much different.

I am not trying to convert anyone. I have been involved in these types of discussions for YEARS and I cannot think of a SINGLE TIME that anyone converted from these debates. Not from Christian to agnostic, not from Muslim to Christian, not from Buddhist to Jew. What I am doing is trying to put forth the most logical and factual argument that I can. Whatever you all take from it, that's your call.

Originally Posted by Jay Pan ROKK

It is ok to spread scientific achievements but it is not ok to fight against beliefs.

It's not? So when the Flat Earth Society tries to infiltrate the public school system it is not okay for me to attack their belief that the world is flat by showing them satellite images or other such things? It's not okay to correct lies from Creationists stating that men rode on the backs of dinosaurs and that Evolution is fake? Suit yourself. I find willful ignorance and lies to be worthy of correction.

Originally Posted by Jay Pan ROKK

What is the problem of being lazy btw ?

Be lazy and waste away if you want to, but trying to infect others with ignorance is something I will stand up against. (Speaking abstractly)

[Jay Pan ROKK]

Originally Posted by Zeke's Chaingun

What does that even mean? JPR, you're resorting to saying things that sound profound but really doesn't mean anything. It reminds me of a friend of mine who was arguing with another person, and he got all dramatic and said, "Hey! Different Strokes...... for different... Folks." and acted as if he brought something profound to the discussion.
The above means nothing. People are different, yes, but me not being willing to respect another persons point of view does not mean I am not prepared to live in a diverse world. I DO live in a diverse world and I am functioning fairly well in it.



Size of what task?



I am not trying to convert anyone. I have been involved in these types of discussions for YEARS and I cannot think of a SINGLE TIME that anyone converted from these debates. Not from Christian to agnostic, not from Muslim to Christian, not from Buddhist to Jew. What I am doing is trying to put forth the most logical and factual argument that I can. Whatever you all take from it, that's your call.



It's not? So when the Flat Earth Society tries to infiltrate the public school system it is not okay for me to attack their belief that the world is flat by showing them satellite images or other such things? It's not okay to correct lies from Creationists stating that men rode on the backs of dinosaurs and that Evolution is fake? Suit yourself. I find willful ignorance and lies to be worthy of correction.



Be lazy and waste away if you want to, but trying to infect others with ignorance is something I will stand up against. (Speaking abstractly)

Well, if you (or any atheist) reply with a task force to any believer you must be into something.

Either atheists accept others beliefs or they dont know how to live in a diverse world yet.

By the work done here at sherdog, I assume, you and atheists in general, want to change the world, so, the size of the task can be measured by the gathering religions put up around world, some with several millions people for each event.

... however, if you really dont want to convert anyone, forget what i said and let us celebrate our differences.

Let us also fight together against any society that wants to infiltrate and dominate public schools, standing for respect e open mind.

Of course it should work for atheism also.

So, laziness per se is not the problem, i agree.

Let us stand up against ignorance, sure, but without trying to ridicule and make fun of others.

[alexdlrg]

I'm an atheist. I'd be excited to have reason to believe in an after life where I could enjoy the company of my loved ones forever. I don't care if the universe was created or not. If there was a God who answered prayers, I'd have some prayers to send God's way. I don't exactly like the idea that God could see the future and thus it was pretty much set in stone. On the flip side, if we're nothing more than electro-chemical reactions, free will may only be an illusion any way.

[cooks1]

Originally Posted by Hydroburger

I'm very aware of the book of Matthew. The verses right before that say something about cutting off your arm and eye if they force you to sin; which according to you, a child would understand.

I absolutely adore people that quote scripture, or use scripture as a reference to prove a point.

Didn't God smite Onan for jacking off on the ground? Why hasn't God smoted any of the other people that have jacked off in human history? Was Onan the "Jesus" for jacking off? Did Onan die so the rest of us could jack off and live?

Hilariously, Onan only jacked off on the ground after he fucked his dead brothers wife. And WHY was Onan's brother dead? That's right- GOD killed him. And WHY did Onan fuck his dead brothers wife- because GOD TOLD HIM TO FUCK HIS DEAD BROTHERS WIFE !!!!! But God wanted Onan to fuck his dead brothers wife AND get her pregnant. Onan thought to himself, "Well, my dead brothers wife IS pretty hot, and I would't mind fucking her, but I don't want to knock her up, so I'll just pull out and spooge on the ground over here." God, now obviously pretty pissed, then smote Onan.

Summary- God smote Onans brother. God told Onan to fuck his dead brothers wife and get her pregnant. Onan instead fucked his dead brothers wife and jacked off on the ground. God smote Onan.

Moral- If God kills your brother and gives you a hall pass to fuck his wife and knock her up, don't go stealing the booty and jack off on the ground-That's just taking the piss.

Does anyone think there is a place for the Disney Corporation in this story?

[Alexandergreat3]

The only reason why there are people who want to believe in a higher being, a God, or whatever, is because they all hope that there is a better place - a heaven - for them after they die, because their current lives are not fulfilling. It is as simple as that.

So really, the real question isn't whether people want a creator to exist. The question is WHY do people want a creator to exist?

If a creator existed but he does NOTHING for you - he doesn't give you a better life - would you still want a creator? And for what?

[REDWRATH]

Originally Posted by cooks1

What an interesting statement. I guess I can agree to a point.

You do not need religion, OR a prevailing moral consiousness to have a sense of right and wrong. An atheist that harms others did not harm them because he is an atheist, but because he is a douchebag sociopath. Atheism does not give someone a reason to commit "evil". It just doesn't always give them a reason not to. Whereas the vast majority of despicable acts in the entire course of human history were either direct results of religious conflict, done in the name of religion, or at the very least committed by a "religious" individual or group.

I'm pretty sure a "prevailing moral consciousness" is your sense of right and wrong.

"An atheist that harms others did not harm them because he is an atheist, but because he is a douchebag sociopath. Atheism does not give someone a reason to commit "evil". It just doesn't always give them a reason not to." My point exactly. But this can also be said about religion. Muslim extremists are misguided on their own religion by those seeking benefit from it. The Crusades happened because the Holy land was valuable for trade and Christians were made to be fools by their leaders who were seeking gain. For the first 300 years the Christian church was small and held no political power and did nothing wrong to anyone.

"Whereas the vast majority of despicable acts in the entire course of human history were either direct results of religious conflict, done in the name of religion, or at the very least committed by a "religious" individual or group." Direct result of religious conflict not many. Done in the name of religion for other gain is actually spot on. But once again this is bad people using good people for gain, which should not reflect on religion as a whole or religion today.

[REDWRATH]

Originally Posted by Alexandergreat3

The only reason why there are people who want to believe in a higher being, a God, or whatever, is because they all hope that there is a better place - a heaven - for them after they die, because their current lives are not fulfilling. It is as simple as that.

So really, the real question isn't whether people want a creator to exist. The question is WHY do people want a creator to exist?

If a creator existed but he does NOTHING for you - he doesn't give you a better life - would you still want a creator? And for what?

Thats a big generalization of religious people who believe in an afterlife. I was actually agnostic and was happy before I became a more spiritual person. Yes I am more happy now but if you would have asked me in the past if I would be more happy as a religious person I would have said no. I perceived myself as being happy.

As for "If a creator existed but he does NOTHING for you - he doesn't give you a better life - would you still want a creator? And for what?" This is a difficult question for a believer to answer because after sometime it is difficult to fathom a God who had no effect on our lives. But I would say when I was unable to see God in my life was when I was an agnostic. So therefore I did not want a God I could not recognize. I don't know how well that answers your question though.

[Jay Pan ROKK]

From where this sense of evil come to us ?