Save
Random Shot: 
 

Welcome to the Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

 

Go Back  Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > General Discussion > The Dump > Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination

Reply
 
Sherdog Forums
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-09-2008, 12:47 PM   #1 (permalink)

Brown Belt
 
Throatpoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Close to the sea...
Posts: 4,520
Status: Throatpoker is online now
Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination

Quote:
KANSAS CITY, Kansas (CNN) -- Army Spc. Jeremy Hall was raised Baptist.

Like many Christians, he said grace before dinner and read the Bible before bed. Four years ago when he was deployed to Iraq, he packed his Bible so he would feel closer to God.

He served two tours of duty in Iraq and has a near perfect record. But somewhere between the tours, something changed. Hall, now 23, said he no longer believes in God, fate, luck or anything supernatural.

Hall said he met some atheists who suggested he read the Bible again. After doing so, he said he had so many unanswered questions that he decided to become an atheist.

His sudden lack of faith, he said, cost him his military career and put his life at risk. Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety. Video Watch why Hall says his lack of faith almost got him killed »

In March, Hall filed a federal lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Defense and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, among others. In the suit, Hall claims his rights to religious freedom under the First Amendment were violated and suggests that the United States military has become a Christian organization.

"I think it's utterly and totally wrong. Unconstitutional," Hall said.

Hall said there is a pattern of discrimination against non-Christians in the military.

Two years ago on Thanksgiving Day, after refusing to pray at his table, Hall said he was told to go sit somewhere else. In another incident, when he was nearly killed during an attack on his Humvee, he said another soldier asked him, "Do you believe in Jesus now?"

Hall isn't seeking compensation in his lawsuit -- just the guarantee of religious freedom in the military. Eventually, Hall was sent home early from Iraq and later returned to Fort Riley in Junction City, Kansas, to complete his tour of duty.

He also said he missed out on promotions because he is an atheist.

"I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader," Hall said.

Michael Weinstein, a retired senior Air Force officer and founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is suing along with Hall. Weinstein said he's been contacted by more than 8,000 members of the military, almost all of them complaining of pressure to embrace evangelical Christianity.

"Our Pentagon, our Pentacostalgon, is refusing to realize that when you put the uniform on, there's only one religious faith: patriotism," Weinstein said.

Religious discrimination is a violation of the First Amendment and is also against military policy. The Pentagon refused to discuss specifics of Hall's case -- citing the litigation. But Deputy Undersecretary Bill Carr said complaints of evangelizing are "relatively rare." He also said the Pentagon is not pushing one faith among troops.

"If an atheist chose to follow their convictions, absolutely that's acceptable," said Carr. "And that's a point of religious accommodation in department policy, one may hold whatever faith, or may hold no faith."
Don't Miss

* Blog: Is the military a Christian organization?
* AC360.com

Weinstein said he doesn't buy it and points to a promotional video by a group called Christian Embassy. The video, which shows U.S. generals in uniform, was shot inside the Pentagon. The generals were subsequently reprimanded.

Another group, the Officers' Christian Fellowship, has representatives on nearly all military bases worldwide. Its vision, which is spelled out on the organization's Web site, reads, "A spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform empowered by the Holy Spirit."

Weinstein has a different interpretation.

"Their purpose is to have Christian officers exercise Biblical leadership to raise up a godly army," he says.

But Carr said the military's position is clear.

"Proselytizing or advancing a religious conviction is not what the nation would have us do and it's not what the military does," Carr said.

The U.S. Justice Department is expected to respond to Hall's lawsuit this week. In the meantime, he continues to work in the military police unit at Fort Riley and plans to leave as soon as his tour of duty expires next year.
Source
__________________
Collectivism is slavery.
Throatpoker is online now  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote

Old 07-09-2008, 01:15 PM   #2 (permalink)

White Belt
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 80
Status: Cactot is offline
Good, I hope they win. It would serve the nation well to teach the hypocritical evangelists a lesson, especially those in military leadership who would make promotion decisions based on religious belief.
Cactot is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 01:28 PM   #3 (permalink)

Green Belt
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,056
Status: FIMN is offline
Quote:
Another group, the Officers' Christian Fellowship, has representatives on nearly all military bases worldwide. Its vision, which is spelled out on the organization's Web site, reads, "A spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform empowered by the Holy Spirit."
Crusades ftw
__________________
Although 3 Pride fighters might have the UFC belts, the UFC has all Pride's belts and all the Pride fighters... so who really wins?
FIMN is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 01:34 PM   #4 (permalink)

Green Belt
 
alanb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,026
Status: alanb is offline
I'm a Buddhist and everyone in myh unit that knew me during my six years in the Marine COrps knew it. I didn't get hazed. The only koke were from my close friend on how I was getting reincarnted as whatever for killing X. It is admitedly mostly Chritian as it always has been. But it isn't a theocracy
__________________
My back is my home.


(\__/)
(o.O )
(> < ) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!
alanb is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 01:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
PMC

Yellow Belt
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 236
Status: PMC is offline
Atheist need dig there head out of there ass and stop being so negative. and realize there is a god and that you will pay for your sins when you die.. Suck it up and do your job and stop using religion as reason why you didn't get a promotion.
__________________
Theres nothing between us, But oceans of bad blood.
PMC is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 01:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
In Ian's corner, crying
 
Saith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 3,058
Status: Saith is offline
Way to put Christ first guys
__________________
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but, in practice, there is.

"Slacks are a species of bird" - Fatty's story
Saith is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 01:46 PM   #7 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
sleepwalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 687
Status: sleepwalk is offline
First and foremost, this soldier may not have the same faith (belief) he did before but he is certainly not LACKING in anything.

While some may see this as an evangelical (or even fundmentalist) Christian oppression, I have a different take. This is one crappy person (supervisor? never mentioned) telling someone that not praying with their troops makes them a poor leader. Asking someone to sit somewhere else at Thanksgiving? Messed up on that guy's part but do you hold the entire US Army accountable?

My problem is that the article makes it seem that Spec Hall was threatened for his beliefs when the video states more clearly that he got threats from fellow soldiers for suing the US Army. Still messed up but infinitely less so.

As for organizations such as OCF, they cannot be construed as establishment of religion under the first amendment because they are protected under the free exercise clause. This means that, as long as they don't appear in uniform or on military installations in any promotional material, they are fine. Then they would be reprimanded as those officers were, just as I would if I were on the internet in uniform shaking hands with Friendly Jim of Friendly Jim's used auto under a banner that said "Friendly Jim's Used Auto." Information on meetings and membership can be posted on community bulletin boards, same as intersquad basketball schedules and "Lost Cat. If found please call..."
__________________
"I am fully confident in saying that there is no problem on Earth, personal, mathematic or otherwise, that cannot be solved by hitting something with a big rock."
sleepwalk is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 01:47 PM   #8 (permalink)

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 421
Status: Wingslaught is online now
I'm sure he made a point to use any prayer gathering as a chance to display his newfounded beliefs. He wouldn't have any problems if he just kept quietly to himself. If he truly believed the way he did, he would have the strength to keep quiet while others are exercising their own religious beliefs. He is a fool, and I'm sure he got everything he deserved.
Wingslaught is online now  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 06:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
IM KIND OF A BIG DEAL
 
Lubaolong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 16,441
Status: Lubaolong is online now
The military is filled with idiots, who naturally are highly religious, who naturally try to force their religious beliefs on everyone else. I also felt the pressure towards Christianity when I was in the AF. I remember being forced to attend a few religious ceremonies. And after writing an anonymous letter to the chaplain questioning it, the letter was read allowed, ridiculed, and we were all yelled at.
__________________
If you do happen to see me out in the real world, do me a favor and don't talk to me. I'm far too rich and important to be seen with you.
Lubaolong is online now  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote

Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Army training. Monkey shoes Mayberry Lounge 68 09-29-2007 05:11 PM
Army suicides highest in 26 years Sohei The War Room 24 08-17-2007 04:58 PM
US rapist paedophile soldier gets 110 years vaj3k The War Room 42 08-08-2007 09:30 AM
AWOL soldier: Army won't return lawyer's calls RaposaBJJ The War Room 13 05-11-2007 06:57 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version {1. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008 Sherdog.com | Privacy Policy | Click here to advertise on Sherdog