[enginekid]

Originally Posted by Hofmeyr

I like how the main point soars right over everyone's head. As China, India and other places 'catch up' with their forays into technology and laziness and the ever-expanding quest for convenience and stupidity, they too will be putting more and more vehicles on the road, using more dishwashers etc.. and creating waste just as good as the big boys over in North America.

It will be a global catastrophe and fun to watch.

at least there are people with clear heads and intellegent minds like you around.

this was refreshing and renewed my faith in humanity.

[FireBlood]

Enginekid
All this angst, anger, ranting & raving, whatever you want to call it...but you don't PROPOSE anything. OK, so you walk, you ride your bike (which your parents probably bought you with money they earned at their job, which I am almost sure required some sort of industry) you recycle, etc, etc. but what is your ANSWER to this "mess" we are in?

do you think that bike you ride never required any kind of industry? did you make it your self from scratch, with your bare hands from materials you gathered from the earth? doubt it. someone had to make it. someone had to deliver the materials to your local bike shop via plane, truck or train. someone had to sell it to you. unless you stole it, of course.
You know what happens if tomorrow, everyone, and I do mean everyone, started riding a bike??? Eventually, we would all have to stop riding our bikes, because there would be no one left to manufacture these bikes, no one to deliver parts to the shop, no one to maintain them, etc. Then, what happens when/if we close the bike manufacturing industry? (or is this the only manufacturing industry thats OK? them, and the recycle centers) OK, so we get rid of all the bikes too. Everyone walks everywhere. What happens when your family member needs immediate medical attention, or they need to get to the hospital right now....but the hospital is 20 miles away? they'll die. As people become more & more desperate, fighting for survival, anarchy & chaos would rule supreme.

I personally don't want to live in anarchy & chaos. I am happy that civilization has progressed as much as it has....so we can remain civilized. Am I saying that we've never made any mistakes along the way? no, of course not.
There are more people born everyday than die everyday. This is something neither you or I can do anything about. This happens world-wide by the way. that's just the way of the human race. The Earth can obviously only support so many people...so in theory, given enough time, your pretty picture there would be entirely lit up. Where do we go from there? We won't even be around to find out.

This is the Human Race you belong to. This is the planet we live on. let's do our best to not point fingers, and just help your brother in need if you can.

and don't even get me started on the whole white race thing. Skin color has nothing at all to do with the above. All skin color represents is an early civilizations proximty to the earths equator...the closer they were to it, the darker their skin color..period

PS: please excuse my earlier post...i was drunk & tired
peace

[BIel Casen]

Originally Posted by SpacePotato

I don't see how that explanation pwn3d the TS. It basically says "This is a compilation of actual photos of city lights. The density of light, incidentally, reflects the density of population in general." They are not saying it is an image made up based on population data that is then made to look like city lights. It supposedly really is a composite photo of city lights.

Why don't we start with you identifying which aspects of TS's original post you agree with, because I'm guessing if you're supporting him, you only read his heavily redacted version.

"This is the Earth at nighttime. Notice that North America, mainly the USA is using massive power 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Next is Western Europe, than Japan. There are major cities around the globe that also have this intensity of light all night

The all-night-long power grid represents a direct relationship with industrial activity, automotive activity, and any other activities that use electric power. All these activities are not pretty Christmas lights for the kids ... or cool light shows for the stoners... they represent "cancer" to the planet Earth. And present the highest levels of heat trapping gases: The USA being the major culprit.

The best analogy is, the area with the high levels of light indicates spreading cancer - which is harbinger of the impending doom of the ecosystem, all its species, (e.g. the worlds frogs are all dying off, they are the indicator species of eco-health). Ultimately the major species that's causing it, the apex predator, will die in the end ... humans.

Sadly, areas like India are starting to become lit up like Europe and the USA. Not even close yet to the brightness and intensity of the USA but one day if they stay on this path it will be.

Post-industrial Human activity is the root of the disease. White humans are the ones most responsible for engineering, and through democratic marketing, spreading the contagion.

The main skin color of the humans that are causing the most of it on Earth is, white. If you look around at the rest of the planet that is mostly in the dark at night you can see it's in areas like Africa, South America, and Eurasia. Populated by dark skin colour peoples. The peoples you Americans and Europeans all call backward, third world, impoverished losers. When in actuality it is you, the all-night-long power-sucking vampires of the planet who are impoverishing the Earth. The party won't last my friends. You think your technology will save us? The Earth laughs in our faces. We are at a tipping point in human history. All the people who think of themselves as the “have-mores” and laugh at the poor, “have-nots” are the true cancers of this world. The planet and nature has no ability though to discriminate between you and the rest of the people. Nothing you own will save you; not your houses, your SUV's, your bank accounts, your guns, your medications...nothing. Once this ship tips, the party is OVER.

You are either a part of the disease or a part of the solution. You either deny the truth or accept this disease exists and start doing something about it. All the vampires will keep denying it, because well, they are vampires. Are you one of the vampires? Do you kid yourself and think no way man I am a law-abiding family man, and I’m not buying into this BS, I isn’t no vampire!?

Keep kidding yourself then. Your kids will have nothing but a world sucked dry by your slothful ways, greedy soul, and mental apathy."

[enginekid]

Originally Posted by FireBlood

Enginekid
All this angst, anger, ranting & raving, whatever you want to call it...but you don't PROPOSE anything. OK, so you walk, you ride your bike (which your parents probably bought you with money they earned at their job, which I am almost sure required some sort of industry) you recycle, etc, etc. but what is your ANSWER to this "mess" we are in?

do you think that bike you ride never required any kind of industry? did you make it your self from scratch, with your bare hands from materials you gathered from the earth? doubt it. someone had to make it. someone had to deliver the materials to your local bike shop via plane, truck or train. someone had to sell it to you. unless you stole it, of course.
You know what happens if tomorrow, everyone, and I do mean everyone, started riding a bike??? Eventually, we would all have to stop riding our bikes, because there would be no one left to manufacture these bikes, no one to deliver parts to the shop, no one to maintain them, etc. Then, what happens when/if we close the bike manufacturing industry? (or is this the only manufacturing industry thats OK? them, and the recycle centers) OK, so we get rid of all the bikes too. Everyone walks everywhere. What happens when your family member needs immediate medical attention, or they need to get to the hospital right now....but the hospital is 20 miles away? they'll die. As people become more & more desperate, fighting for survival, anarchy & chaos would rule supreme.

I personally don't want to live in anarchy & chaos. I am happy that civilization has progressed as much as it has....so we can remain civilized. Am I saying that we've never made any mistakes along the way? no, of course not.
There are more people born everyday than die everyday. This is something neither you or I can do anything about. This happens world-wide by the way. that's just the way of the human race. The Earth can obviously only support so many people...so in theory, given enough time, your pretty picture there would be entirely lit up. Where do we go from there? We won't even be around to find out.

This is the Human Race you belong to. This is the planet we live on. let's do our best to not point fingers, and just help your brother in need if you can.

and don't even get me started on the whole white race thing. Skin color has nothing at all to do with the above. All skin color represents is an early civilizations proximty to the earths equator...the closer they were to it, the darker their skin color..period

PS: please excuse my earlier post...i was drunk & tired
peace

the answer is not something most people will willingly accept. humanity believes they are locked into this mad machine of constant increasing industry and trade and they feel powerless to stop it becuase they accept the idea that as an individual they cannot have an impact and they believe that their governements can only legislate the changes needed.

this is the reason people do nothing and stay on the treadmill. if each individual started incrementally making small changes to their life and habits the changes would add up to great change.

i personally sold my car. started recycling everything that i can. stopped spending money buying STUFF. started paying attention to where the products and foods were produced and i am starting to only buy locally grown food and items that were not made using chemicals and or grown with pesticides.

if everyone in a city did these things the reduction in waste and pollution would make a real impact.

if everyone just throws up their arms then drops to the pavement and crys, "nothing i do will have any impact, therefore i will do nothing and keep driving and buying stuff and throwing garbage out that could be recycled...im just insignificant, its the governent fault not mine why should i sacrifice when i see joe cool over their still racing the streeets in his mustang"

than you are a person who has decided that you make no difference. your life will become as insignificant as you believe it to be. and you will be absolutely right, you will make no impact at all.

[SpacePotato]

Originally Posted by BIel Casen

Why don't we start with you identifying which aspects of TS's original post you agree with, because I'm guessing if you're supporting him, you only read his heavily redacted version.

I wasn't referring to his original post, other than the part where he said the photo indicates lights and electricity usage. It sounded to me like you were saying "that is not a photo of actual lights; it is a map of population. Look, even Nasa says so." But NASA said, "It's a photo of actual lights. And incidentally, that corresponds to population." So it seemed odd to me that you said "The image from NASA proves I'm right and you're wrong about what the image shows", when in fact, it states that the image shows just what the TS originally claimed it did.

[Pillbox Joe]

Originally Posted by enginekid

the answer is not something most people will willingly accept. humanity believes they are locked into this mad machine of constant increasing industry and trade and they feel powerless to stop it becuase they accept the idea that as an individual they cannot have an impact and they believe that their governements can only legislate the changes needed

lol, if we weren't "locked in this mad machine of constant increasing industry and trade," we wouldn't be having this discussion, now would we?

[SpacePotato]

Originally Posted by enginekid

the answer is not something most people will willingly accept. humanity believes they are locked into this mad machine of constant increasing industry and trade

???

Well, not all of humanity... I certainly don't believe that. Everything goes in cycles. Hell, George Bush could claim the throne at the end of his term here and plunge the whole world back into the dark ages in a matter of decades. Shit comes and goes...

[Kukura]

YouTube - Billy Madison - Everyone is now dumber

Too busy turning off all of lights to actually imbed the video.

[cyberdeth]

Originally Posted by enginekid

you cant argue with an insane person.

sociopaths when confronted with a lie will continue stating the lie is true even though every one else in the room shows them it's absolutely false.

this guys posts are just designed to confuse and detract from the real issue.

An ignorant person doesn't even know when they describe themselves. Were you looking into the mirror when this came to you? :S

[TheSweetScience]

Originally Posted by enginekid

the answer is not something most people will willingly accept. humanity believes they are locked into this mad machine of constant increasing industry and trade and they feel powerless to stop it becuase they accept the idea that as an individual they cannot have an impact and they believe that their governements can only legislate the changes needed.

this is the reason people do nothing and stay on the treadmill. if each individual started incrementally making small changes to their life and habits the changes would add up to great change.

i personally sold my car. started recycling everything that i can. stopped spending money buying STUFF. started paying attention to where the products and foods were produced and i am starting to only buy locally grown food and items that were not made using chemicals and or grown with pesticides.

if everyone in a city did these things the reduction in waste and pollution would make a real impact.

if everyone just throws up their arms then drops to the pavement and crys, "nothing i do will have any impact, therefore i will do nothing and keep driving and buying stuff and throwing garbage out that could be recycled...im just insignificant, its the governent fault not mine why should i sacrifice when i see joe cool over their still racing the streeets in his mustang"

than you are a person who has decided that you make no difference. your life will become as insignificant as you believe it to be. and you will be absolutely right, you will make no impact at all.

okay then. be "significant" and turn off your computer and lights and air conditioning and television and oven and microwave and get your house and your place of employment and all the other buildings you visit for business and pleasure off the power grid.

until then, stfu.