What is your favorite Kendo/ kenjutsu Kamae?

[Too Defensive]

I like waki kamae. I use it as a baiting technique. My opponent thinks he has a clear strike, then I jump back and counter.

[Lacedemonio301]

jōdan-no-kamae



However, it is not as versatile as Chūdan-no-kamae, IMHO.

[village_idiot]

jedi fu

[Too Defensive]

Originally Posted by Lacedemonio301

jōdan-no-kamae



However, it is not as versatile as Chūdan-no-kamae, IMHO.

Finally. A fellow practitioner. I like Waki because the blade is hidden. Also use it for bait. Chudan is probably the safest and yes more versitle, but every one uses it, and I don't like my blade being batted aside. Waki throws a lot of people off because they are expecting chudan.

As for Jodan... I would have a hard time using it against chudan because the tip is in my face.. but thats just me. Thanks for your comment

[Slamurai]

Erm... waki kamae? I didn't think anyone actually used that anymore.

The thing about jodan is that it's a transitional stance from a failed hit, while retreating. I don't think it was ever meant to be a static stance; it takes a lot of balls to just raise your hands and expose 4/4 targets. It's like saying, "C'mon, mother fucker."

[Too Defensive]

Originally Posted by Slamurai

Erm... waki kamae? I didn't think anyone actually used that anymore.

The thing about jodan is that it's a transitional stance from a failed hit, while retreating. I don't think it was ever meant to be a static stance; it takes a lot of balls to just raise your hands and expose 4/4 targets. It's like saying, "C'mon, mother fucker."

It can be used as a static or retreating. The same for Waki Kamae. WHen I use it, I am saying "come om Mother fucker",. then when the idiot presses the attack, a reatreat and catch him on the forhead, or as a reverse kesa. I prefer Waki because the blade is hidden. Also, it throws alot of guys off, as they are expecting a blade in their face to work against, but there is none there.


Thank you for your post.

[Slamurai]

Originally Posted by Too Defensive

It can be used as a static or retreating. The same for Waki Kamae. WHen I use it, I am saying "come om Mother fucker",. then when the idiot presses the attack, a reatreat and catch him on the forhead, or as a reverse kesa. I prefer Waki because the blade is hidden. Also, it throws alot of guys off, as they are expecting a blade in their face to work against, but there is none there.


Thank you for your post.

The only advantage you have in waki kamae is that it becomes difficult for your opponent to gauge distance. Unfortately, it also has many shortcomings. Jodan kamae is a better kamae for counter hits, simply because it has all of the benefits of waki kamae, and none of shortcomings.

While waki has the benefits of being concealing distance and enhancing counter hits, it also requires you to drop your tip, as well as switch your footwork. The main reason waki kamae isn't commonly used is because it requires a left-foot forward stance, telegraphing your footwork. Especially in swordwork, crossing your feet is a huge mistake; waki kamae forces you to cross your feet in order to deliver any blow.

Jodan kamae also conceals your range and doesn't require you to chose a side. Your tip is raised, as opposed to lowered, making your strike faster.


In end, chudan will always be the stronger kamae, while jodan is used either in retreat, or by a skilled counter-striker. Waki is just mostly for people that don't do kendo/kumdo competitively and enjoy sport chanbara.

[Too Defensive]

Originally Posted by Slamurai

The only advantage you have in waki kamae is that it becomes difficult for your opponent to gauge distance. Unfortately, it also has many shortcomings. Jodan kamae is a better kamae for counter hits, simply because it has all of the benefits of waki kamae, and none of shortcomings.

While waki has the benefits of being concealing distance and enhancing counter hits, it also requires you to drop your tip, as well as switch your footwork. The main reason waki kamae isn't commonly used is because it requires a left-foot forward stance, telegraphing your footwork. Especially in swordwork, crossing your feet is a huge mistake; waki kamae forces you to cross your feet in order to deliver any blow.

Jodan kamae also conceals your range and doesn't require you to chose a side. Your tip is raised, as opposed to lowered, making your strike faster.


In end, chudan will always be the stronger kamae, while jodan is used either in retreat, or by a skilled counter-striker. Waki is just mostly for people that don't do kendo/kumdo competitively and enjoy sport chanbara.

1. In all the stances, at least 1 foot is forward so I don't see the difference with Waki Kamae

2. Jodan does not conceal your tip as well as Waki.

3. You say the only advantage waki has is that it is difficult for your opponent to gauge your distance. This is a huge advantage in any one on one fighting situation, swords or no.

4. Crossing the feet before a retreating counter strike in Waki is a good thing, because it moves your body far out of the way, thus avoiding your opponents strike, but keeping him in range for that retreating strike of yours. (your rear foot has just become your front foot)

To each his own, but waki has a big advantage over the others because your sword can't be batted out of the way, and its very hard for your opponent to know if he is out of range for your waki strike or if he is in range.

[Slamurai]

Originally Posted by Too Defensive

1. In all the stances, at least 1 foot is forward so I don't see the difference with Waki Kamae

The reason for having your right foot forward is rooted in the fundamentals of footwork, as well as the mechanics behind your grip. All kendo footwork is linear in its front/back and counter-postle in its left/right. You always move the nearest foot in the direction you are planning to move. If your feet are swtiched, it slows your footwork when you actually initiate an attack.

Beyond footwork, kinetic linking is also slowed, if you don't cross your feet before you attack. When cutting from left to right, bottom to top, with your left foot forward, your power chokes as you reach their hips.

Having your right side forward is tantamount in competitive kendo; as is having your tip raised above waist level. It's not an issue of tactics... it's an issue of speed and power.


2. Jodan does not conceal your tip as well as Waki.

A proper jodan completely conceals your blade and tip behind the gauntlet and guard. In a proper jodan you tilt the tip backwards at 45 degrees, with the hilt in line with your opponents eyes. They both hide the tip as well, however, jodan has a raised sword which increases your speed and power. Since the hilt is kept in front of the body instead of behind it, it also requires less time to setup.

Also, in kendo you move the tip last, and the hilt first. The proximity of your hilt is more important than your tip because the tip travels faster, and always follows the hilt.

3. You say the only advantage waki has is that it is difficult for your opponent to gauge your distance. This is a huge advantage in any one on one fighting situation, swords or no.

Range is also its greatest shortcoming. Although your opponent can't gauge how far you are, neither can you! You need two swords to accurately use the 1x2 method. When I was living in South Korea and training with the national kumdo team in Yong-In (2004 - 2005), shorter kendoka would use jodan immediately after a failed strike, while retreating. They did this for 2 reasons: 1) it obscures your range, so your opponent doesn't know how far back you've retreated, and; 2) the higher position allows for a very quick counter-hit against taller opponents.



4. Crossing the feet before a retreating counter strike in Waki is a good thing, because it moves your body far out of the way, thus avoiding your opponents strike, but keeping him in range for that retreating strike of yours. (your rear foot has just become your front foot)

In kendo, crossing the feet is never a good thing, and I think any teacher will swear by that. You don't need to move "far out of the war". All you need is around an inch or two either side. To beginners, kendo appears to be very linear; however, high level kendo takes place in a counter-postle game. Waki no kamae makes moving sideways while attacking very difficult, limiting its ability to create angles.



To each his own, but waki has a big advantage over the others because your sword can't be batted out of the way, and its very hard for your opponent to know if he is out of range for your waki strike or if he is in range.

You can't bat jodan away. It's just as hard to gauge distance against a jodan user.

Personally, I think waki no kamae is completely ineffective at higher levels, simply because kendo is too fast. I believe it's a great stance if you're using real steel, since the time it takes to percieve, initiate the attack, and make contact, is offset by the weight and balance of a real sword. It's a great stance if mobility is more important than hand speed, while jodan is more about a slow retreat while "pre-chambering" for a counter-hit.

Where do you train kendo? It's interesting to think that some schools allow their students to use waki; most schools are purely chudan or jodan. Hell, one of the coaches in Guelph once told me that waki no kamae is like a boxer fighting with his hands behind his back.

[Doughbelly]

Hahaha, you can always tell a Yongin guy when you start arguing with one.

Department or club?