[zenshin]

I read some of you guys here work in security and as Doorman, I was wondering what do you guys train, BJJ, Wrestling, Boxing or Muay Thai etc. With your experiance in security or as doormen what do you feel is the most useful of these syatems to help you out at your jobs.

[Tim Chan]

i was security for a short time, but in an isolated place, and no trouble, so i honestly can't tell you what is good in a real confrontation.

My instructor has a lot of experience in his bouncing days in this bad place. He mainly trained chinese styles, but i'm not sure what it was at that time, since he's studied a few and just practices zhaquan/bagua nowadays.

I can tell you that bjj/wrestling's not the best choice. You want to avoid the ground. and some of their techniques are unrealistic on pavement(ie. dragging your knee).

[Mighty Feez]

Judo and Boxing

[zenshin]

I have a strong background in Israeli Arts ( not the americanized version) and i was curious what you guys trained, Judo and boxing is a awesome combo for the streets except you have to learn the throws with out using the gi, BJJ coul b of some use mounting etc, but then you have to worry who is behind you etc. Boxing muay thai is by far the best tools to have in a security and street scenario in my opinion. Wrestling has some really good tools also considering the slams and take downs. I know this one guy world expert in counter terrorism teaches kapap, he recomended BJJ and muay thai, evn though BJJ is not too good for a street situation or security is has benefits on how to deal with a grappling situation and how to keep control on the ground, so I think a good MMA combo or program is suited well for any security or street combat if trained to a realisitic level where your concern is not to score but to survive or retrain someone.

[Mighty Feez]

Originally Posted by zenshin

I have a strong background in Israeli Arts ( not the americanized version) and i was curious what you guys trained, Judo and boxing is a awesome combo for the streets except you have to learn the throws with out using the gi, BJJ coul b of some use mounting etc, but then you have to worry who is behind you etc. Boxing muay thai is by far the best tools to have in a security and street scenario in my opinion. Wrestling has some really good tools also considering the slams and take downs. I know this one guy world expert in counter terrorism teaches kapap, he recomended BJJ and muay thai, evn though BJJ is not too good for a street situation or security is has benefits on how to deal with a grappling situation and how to keep control on the ground, so I think a good MMA combo or program is suited well for any security or street combat if trained to a realisitic level where your concern is not to score but to survive or retrain someone.

Actually, a lot of throws are easier without the gi. Get one underhook and it's all good....

[Gregster]

I never bounced, but my instructor did for years. He trained TKD, Hapkido, Aikido, and boxing.

Ignore the nut-huggers who say that anything that's not BJJ or Muay Thai is worthless. Muay Thai has limited applications in the confines of a crowded bar and would probably only be of use if the fight spilled into the parking lot, where many of them do. BJJ is great mano-a-mano, but all of my experience and observation has shown me that contrary to what ardent disciples of BJJ will tell you (note: I train BJJ, and think it is an invaluable component to a well-rounded repetoire) the *LAST* thing you wanna do in a bar brawl is go to the ground. If you wind up on the ground, it's damned good to know, but for most bouncing encounters, you want to stay on your feet. Belligerent assholes travel in packs, and I've seen plenty of fights between two people flare up into giant melees involving people who had nothing to do with the fight because they were drunk and got pumped full of adrenaline.

I think the ideal regimen for a bouncer would be:

1) Anything that teaches simple, no-nonsense standup striking that can be don ein close quarters.

2) Something that teaches standing submission so you can control a violent drunk and get him out of the bar; Priority #1 in any bar altercation is to get whatever is going on outside. If it stays in the bar, the likelihood that it will turn into a nightmare increases dramatically.

3) Something that gives you options if you *must* go to the ground.

[zenshin]

Originally Posted by Gregster

I never bounced, but my instructor did for years. He trained TKD, Hapkido, Aikido, and boxing.

Ignore the nut-huggers who say that anything that's not BJJ or Muay Thai is worthless. Muay Thai has limited applications in the confines of a crowded bar and would probably only be of use if the fight spilled into the parking lot, where many of them do. BJJ is great mano-a-mano, but all of my experience and observation has shown me that contrary to what ardent disciples of BJJ will tell you (note: I train BJJ, and think it is an invaluable component to a well-rounded repetoire) the *LAST* thing you wanna do in a bar brawl is go to the ground. If you wind up on the ground, it's damned good to know, but for most bouncing encounters, you want to stay on your feet. Belligerent assholes travel in packs, and I've seen plenty of fights between two people flare up into giant melees involving people who had nothing to do with the fight because they were drunk and got pumped full of adrenaline.

I think the ideal regimen for a bouncer would be:

1) Anything that teaches simple, no-nonsense standup striking that can be don ein close quarters.

2) Something that teaches standing submission so you can control a violent drunk and get him out of the bar; Priority #1 in any bar altercation is to get whatever is going on outside. If it stays in the bar, the likelihood that it will turn into a nightmare increases dramatically.

3) Something that gives you options if you *must* go to the ground.

I agree to a certain point to what you say, but I feel Muay Thai and boxing offer alot of benfits to a street or security scenario, in a tight spot you can work clinck knees and elbows all powerful strikes that would finsih off the opponent quickly. BJJ I don't train it not much of a fan of it, but it is needed to a cetain aspect in order to avoid or control on the ground, like as stated before I traind aot on kapap and muay thai, but a ecent ground gme is good to have, it is not what you train, bu how you train ( got that from geoff thompsom) TKD could be effective if trained the right way for the steets same goes for MMA, BJJ and everthing else out there, it is the mind-frame you have when training that really matters.

[Gregster]

Originally Posted by Vilo Magee

BJJ is crap for nightclubs. Muay thai is ok but have to use with prudence same with boxing. A good system for bouncer is something with simple joint locks that cause pain but they wont seriously injure the customer.
Mostly though know how to talk to people and dont try to be billy bad ass and you will be fine. I work with and hire guys all the time who have no fight training but they do ok because they never have to fight they can talk their way out of anything. To many people rely on their fighting skills and not their negotiating skills.

Indeed. Billy Badass types make the worst bouncers. For one thing, they open the club up to litigation; every time you pound on someone, you create an opportunity for them to sue the establishment if only to be total dicks and get some payback (seen that a couple times). They also ruin the reputation of the place; get enough people going around saying that Club Such-And-Such sucks because it's staffed by Nazis looking for an excuse to bust heads and you're on your way out of business.

Fact is, I'd say easily half the bouncers I hung out with were, quite frankly, shitty fighters. They made good bouncers because 90% of the time, all they had to do was approach a developing situation in force and stand around with their arms crossed looking like the juiced-up muscelheads they were to defuse the problem. The other 10% of the time my instructor, who was half their size but a hell of a fighter, would have to step in and handle things.

[zenshin]

Originally Posted by Vilo Magee

BJJ is crap for nightclubs. Muay thai is ok but have to use with prudence same with boxing. A good system for bouncer is something with simple joint locks that cause pain but they wont seriously injure the customer.
Mostly though know how to talk to people and dont try to be billy bad ass and you will be fine. I work with and hire guys all the time who have no fight training but they do ok because they never have to fight they can talk their way out of anything. To many people rely on their fighting skills and not their negotiating skills.

Def agree with what you have to say!!! De-escalating a situation with out any force or violence is the key to a good bouncer!!! (I have those skills and still can't get a bouncer gig anywhere in the city lol)

I also agree that BJJ has no place in a bar or club, but it still ofers good sense of control on the ground or controlng your opponent, it is hard to find anyone that could teach restaints like locks and holds not nless it is a hapkido, aikido, or any of the budo arts, but the problem is they dont train in a realistic matter.

[VampireMonk]

I did security and I trained in BJJ at the time,
had plenty of other MA experience but if things got ugly just the thought of I would
know how to fight off my back on the ground is a comfort like no other.