Questions about 410 Slug, and 22 caliber.

SamuraiRat · 01-16-2009, 03:47 AM

Is the 410 slug a man stopper?

I was cleaning out this old shotgun that belongs to my uncle, because he wanted it ready for home defense. I've never been too into the .410 gauge in general. My dad has only ever refered to that shell as a "snake charmer". When he asked what kind of ammo to get I told him he could't go wrong with slugs, but upon researching I haven't found anything conclusive. A lot "I don't think" or "It should be". I was checking out hunting forums to get my answer. I figure if it could take down a full grown deer, it could take down a man at say 50 yards. However everything I found was based on theory. I was curious about experience with the round I was curious about your opinions.

Same question with the 22, but debating Pistol vs. Rifle?

I've never been in a gunfight, but at a gunfight range (I've read 15-20 ft.) is it true you must only aim for soft tissue when using a 22 caliber pistol? I've read about the round not being capable of pentraing the skull or chest cavity. There's that scene in Rob Zombie's "Halloween" where the gun store owner tells Malcolm Mcdowell (in regards to a 22 revolver) "You won't kill em, you'll only piss em off" er something like that. I was wondering if a average length 22 rifle would be the solution at that range. Either way I've always been curious about what y'all have to say about the 22 either way. I always trust y'alls opinion.

Thanks.

Street Tactic · 01-16-2009, 11:20 AM

I don't know much about the .410's ballistics, but I know slugs don't have that great of a muzzle velocity to really pack a punch above 50 yards. Shotgun's effective range on any large game/humans is relatively close ( sub 50 yards ), what you have is essentially a smaller bullet with a equally slow muzzle velocity so the capacity for it to hold a punch at a longer distance is reduced.

Quote:

Stick with 12 gauge Foster type slugs for deer hunting as the smaller gauges pack much less punch. The 20 gauge slug develops only 648 ft. lbs. of energy at 100 yards, which given its low SD is not encouraging. I have done some testing with .410 rifled slugs and they are definitely not adequate deer loads. The less said about these small bore rifled slugs the better.

Ref: Shotgun Slugs

So your asnwer would be no, its not that great of a 30+ yard round.

About the 22., there was a news article here in Florida where an old retired vet had been sitting in how house when some kid broke into his home, the retired vet pulled out a .22 and popped the kid square in the forehead. The kid was hit and stood there as the round pecked him in the head and fell to the ground.

Ref: Retired Green Beret shoots intruder, gets court martial

I bought a .22 as a practice gun for my girl, something for her to get used to handling and loading mags. But looking at the size of your cartridge/round its no bigger than a bb or pellet from an air gun. This is not at all a serious round for self defense and once the adrenaline gets pumping you better either unload the ntire clip into the abdominal area and be a decent shot or run because just one or two rounds will more than likely anger a zombi/madman.

As soon as I see that she can handle her handgun better than most men I'll be upgrading her to a 9mm loaded with hollows. I personally carry a .45 for the single shot put down power. The .22 is fun as hell to shoot, ammos crazy cheap.

jerrylundergard · 01-16-2009, 11:43 AM

I wouldnt want to have a gun fight with a 410 or a 22 handgun.

Ive shot deer with 22 rifles but only took headshots. Ive seen many more droped instantly with headshots.

Ive never shot a 22pistol but wouldnt even think about going that route.

Go for a 20 gauge instead of the 410 if you want a shotgun. Go straight to the 12 gauge if you can but a 20 gauge will work for SD.

Lord of Lies · 01-16-2009, 12:24 PM

Technically, the .410 is a bore, not a gauge. Measured as a gauge, it would be about a 68 gauge.

I would not rely on either one for self defense, both are intended for small game. That being said, both of them are better than having no gun at all for self defense. Either one will kill a human, but there are much better options.

Street Tactic · 01-16-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Lies

Technically, the .410 is a bore, not a gauge.

I stand corrected, sorry for my miswording.

SkullShifter · 01-16-2009, 05:52 PM

my home D is a 12 guage , but with bird shot lol. more of a stinger I guess. Im in Canada though so I'm not allowed to just kill an intruder without cause.

SamuraiRat · 01-17-2009, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkullShifter

my home D is a 12 guage , but with bird shot lol. more of a stinger I guess. Im in Canada though so I'm not allowed to just kill an intruder without cause.

Rule of thumb here in Texas is to shoot the intruder in the chest or face. The perp don't even have tpo be armed. This is just a precaution. I've been told if you shoot someone in the back there's a chance of being sued or arrested even if there in your house, because it could be argued they were peacfully leaving.

jerrylundergard · 01-17-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamuraiRat

Rule of thumb here in Texas is to shoot the intruder in the chest or face. The perp don't even have tpo be armed. This is just a precaution. I've been told if you shoot someone in the back there's a chance of being sued or arrested even if there in your house, because it could be argued they were peacfully leaving.

Generally, I think shooting people in the back has always been frowned upon.

LOL @ shooting someone with a 12 gauge and birdshot, thats not gonna tickle even if its nonlethal!

Are you guys alowed to buy buckshot in Canada? Im sure you could bring some up from the states but if you used it on a perp you may have some explaining to do.

JerkWeed · 01-17-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkullShifter

my home D is a 12 guage , but with bird shot lol. more of a stinger I guess. Im in Canada though so I'm not allowed to just kill an intruder without cause.

The perp may have a legal advantage in most situations but I thought it was the other way around with a home invasion, i.e. you are in the clear for taking any defensive action unless it is obvious there isn't a threat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrylundergard

Are you guys alowed to buy buckshot in Canada?

Yes, there just aren't as many suppliers.

SkullShifter · 01-17-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrylundergard

Generally, I think shooting people in the back has always been frowned upon.

LOL @ shooting someone with a 12 gauge and birdshot, thats not gonna tickle even if its nonlethal!

Are you guys alowed to buy buckshot in Canada? Im sure you could bring some up from the states but if you used it on a perp you may have some explaining to do.

I have 00 buckshot and it kicks just as hard as slugs, the steel birdshot I can shoot it one handed like a pistol its so tame. I tell myself if someone breaks in I'll pop em in the leg if they havent ran already from the sound of the slide action. I wonder if there are rubber slugs!