[Barut]

Hunto,

Do you know how close the range was? I've killed Ground hogs at 10 yards with #6 high brass shot. It was a mess. Ground hogs are tough animals. I shot one with my G23 .40 caliber earlier this year. I hit it in the body and it made it still made it to the hole. My point is that while bird shot is not my go to self defense round, I think it's adequate within 10 yards. Hell, the wad/cup doesn't even separate from the shot within 10 yards.

[Merrill]

Your best bet if you are not a resident is to buy from a private owner at residence or at a gun show.

[Merrill]

Originally Posted by Barut

Hunto,

Do you know how close the range was? I've killed Ground hogs at 10 yards with #6 high brass shot. It was a mess. Ground hogs are tough animals. I shot one with my G23 .40 caliber earlier this year. I hit it in the body and it made it still made it to the hole. My point is that while bird shot is not my go to self defense round, I think it's adequate within 10 yards. Hell, the wad/cup doesn't even separate from the shot within 10 yards.

That's a good question about range.

Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition, .357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?

I found this article a long time ago and it says:

Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.

Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the shot will penetrate about 4 inches.

But it does not say what distance it was tested at.

[hunto]

Originally Posted by Barut

Hunto,

Do you know how close the range was? I've killed Ground hogs at 10 yards with #6 high brass shot. It was a mess. Ground hogs are tough animals. I shot one with my G23 .40 caliber earlier this year. I hit it in the body and it made it still made it to the hole. My point is that while bird shot is not my go to self defense round, I think it's adequate within 10 yards. Hell, the wad/cup doesn't even separate from the shot within 10 yards.

It seems he was firing from around 10 yards.

[jwalk2515]

Hunto: excellent info. There is no reason to load birdshot.

I only pack 00 in my shotty, for some unknown reason I keep a box of slugs handy.

[clinchman]

I've got a whole slew of guns and keep 3 or 4 handy for home defense purposes, and one of them is a shotgun. I've got a bean bag round for shot number one, birdshot for numbers 2 and 3, 00 on number four, and a 3" magnum fifth. My thinking is that as a situation escalates, so will my use of force. If there is one man, he'll get the non-lethal option, If another man appears, then the use of force become nessicary, but I do not want to risk shooting through a wall and killing/injuring someone else. If a fourth shot is needed, the situation is dire, and if I've got to use my fifth shot, it is very likely I may have the desire to "take someone with me". What you use is very dependant on your situation and where you live. If you're single and isolated, use whatever you want, but as population density in the immediate area increases, you have more to worry about.

[hunto]

Originally Posted by clinchman

I've got a whole slew of guns and keep 3 or 4 handy for home defense purposes, and one of them is a shotgun. I've got a bean bag round for shot number one, birdshot for numbers 2 and 3, 00 on number four, and a 3" magnum fifth. My thinking is that as a situation escalates, so will my use of force. If there is one man, he'll get the non-lethal option, If another man appears, then the use of force become nessicary, but I do not want to risk shooting through a wall and killing/injuring someone else. If a fourth shot is needed, the situation is dire, and if I've got to use my fifth shot, it is very likely I may have the desire to "take someone with me". What you use is very dependant on your situation and where you live. If you're single and isolated, use whatever you want, but as population density in the immediate area increases, you have more to worry about.

I hope, for your sake, if bad guys visit, you get the time to cycle to rounds 4 and 5.

[clinchman]

Something about a bean bag from a shotgun to the face or chest at the distance of about 15 feet doesn't seem like something a would-be robber would enjoy. I suppose if it is, I'll get to put this "hundreds of tiny holes in your body tends to make you run away" theory to the test.

[Barut]

Enjoy? I'm concerned with killing/incapacitating intruders, not making them uncomfortable. If Hunto says that he saw a show stating that birdshot is inadequate to reliably kill a man, then it is.

Indian burns are uncomfortable, but not sufficient for self-defense.

[hunto]

Originally Posted by clinchman

Something about a bean bag from a shotgun to the face or chest at the distance of about 15 feet doesn't seem like something a would-be robber would enjoy. I suppose if it is, I'll get to put this "hundreds of tiny holes in your body tends to make you run away" theory to the test.

The Box O' Truth #17 - I Hear You Knocking - ****l Doors - Page 1
What #8 birdshot does to a common ****l door.


What 00 Buckshot does to a door.

from the operator of the website, an ex-lawman and gun enthusiast;
"Lessons learned:
1. ****l front doors provide concealment, not cover. (For those that might not understand the difference, "concealment" means it will hide you and "cover" means that it will stop bullets)

2. Don't think a ****l door will slow down any common round. It only stopped birdshot, which is a very poor penetrator."

If a bad guy is doing something that warrants pulling a gun on him, I'm not shooting him with a bean bag. This isn't 'Ma and Pa Kettle' scaring off varmints with rocksalt. If you feel someone is enough of a threat to pull a gun on them, esp in your home, you shoot to STOP the threat, not piss him off or hurt him or make him feel bad.