[Dolomite]

It's a little more complicated obtaining the $200 Tax Stamp than sticking $200 in an envelope and sending it Washington.

Getting a barrel less than 18" LEGALLY is generally considered more of a hassle than what most people are willing to put up with.



- Find a title 2 manufacturer (read Shotgun News), the gun has to possess that manufacturers name. They'll break down the difference between a SBS and an AOW (short bbl shotty and any other weapon) so you can decide whether you want to spend a lot of money or an obnoxious amount of money.

- Order your dream shotgun - go nuts and customize it to your liking - may as well - this whole thing is going to cost you a shitload anyway.

- Once manufactured, register it with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

It's probably best to have a face-to-face with your local Chief LEO (or Sheriff) before you start the process - because you can all but guarantee he or she will be contacting you once the BATF contacts them for a reference.

You could also follow a process where you form an LLC.

Cool tools for sure - but way too difficult for most people to own.



I recommend to people on a budget to obtain an old, cheap, Sears or H&R single shot 12 gauge and take it down to an 18.5" barrel (measure two ways, internally using a dowel and externally - go with which ever method leaves you longer) then, follow up by shortening the stock butt to as close to 26" overall length as practical. Drill and tap for a replacement front bead if you want (about $20 in parts).

Some might say that doing it yourself (shortening a barrel to 18" - 26" overall) is illegal - please have them state the relevant Title & Section of Federal Law and use the opportunity to shame me on a Sherdog forum!

[Lubaolong]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I might get some new sights for my Glock or try to trade it in for a XD for now. Maybe I'll get a 18.5" barrel shotgun after I buy a house stateside and settle down. Thanks again.

[mobeck]

Originally Posted by Der_Teufel

ugh... another guy the equates shotgun to HD. Seriously the weapons noobs on these forums are rampant. Ask Pat Rogers or any real CQB instructor what he has next to his bedside. I'm still waiting for the "racking the pump will scare off the intruder BS."

And to the dude who wrote "get the longest barrel possible"... get a clue and stop spreading your BS around the internet please.

ETA... remember with a shotgun you have to be accountable for 8 pellets (if you're using the correct loading, and you're not some retard using bird shot or a slug), and tests on drywall show that they (the pellets) like to penetrate. The correct answer in the opinion of most people high up the CQB food chain is the AR15 family of weapons systems. The .223 surprisingly does not penetrate as well in walls and you may think since it fragments like a motherfuck when it hits something relatively soft. And 30rds vs. 7 rounds?? And you now have the ability to punch through body armor.

Wow, an AR15 for home defense? That strikes me as odd. Besides, what kind of intruders are you expecting? I mean, you don't often hear of cat burglars decked out in body armor, and in all likelihood nothing at all is going to happen, so is an AR15 with a banana clip really necessary? And the last thing you should be worrying about if intruders are in your home is damage to your walls...

Shotgun is good for home defense...fuck the 'racking the pump', that's not why you want a shotgun, you want a shotgun because it's a great close quarters weapon for inside the home. Since you'll probably be nervous if you ever need to fire it in a real situation, you'll be more likely to hit your target with the spray of pellets as opposed to a small single round.

[Chris B]

Originally Posted by Lubaolong

That's something to think about. I have a Glock 26. I've been thinking about getting a different cc handgun with an external safety. Are there any ones that you particularly like? I've been looking at some XD pistols.

If you are accustom to a 9mm , I would just recommend going to a Glock 19. My wife carries one with Trijicon Yellow/Green Night Sights and a Hogue Grip. I personally place Glocks at the top of the list for tactical weapons. I own 5 and carried a Glock 31 as my primary weapon when I was still Law Enforcement. I loved it and qualitifed within 5 points of a perfect score every qual.

I also own several Sig Sauers which are also good handguns, but I had some feeding problems with my P229 which is why I decided to switch to the Glock. I also like the weight difference, sight profile, and natural alignment the Glock offers. It just "feels" right to me now. The most important thing for you is that you are confident in the firearm you purchase and that it feels natural to you (point of aim, function, weight, balance, etc.)

You really do not need an external safety. Your finger should remain off the trigger outside the trigger guard until your ready to shoot anyways. The Glock has three internal safeties that do their job (Trigger Safety, Firing Pin Block, Rolling Block) that will prevent accidental discharges. If you absolutely demand an external, I would also add the Steyr 9mm to the list to check out. It is a great shooting weapon.

[Chris B]

[quote=mobeck;20530411]And the last thing you should be worrying about if intruders are in your home is damage to your walls...
QUOTE]

The issue with sheet rock is not damage, it is overpenetration. The last thing you want is the round penetrating multiple walls and killing your child playing/sleeping in the next room or a spouse. Tests conducted by the FBI and the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center actually showed the .223 had less penetration than a standard 9mm round. The 9mm penetrated several internal walls and exited the enternal as well in most weights and loads of 9mm. The .223 faired better.

How much tactical training have you personally had? Standing at a range holding a weapon aimed in is NOT tactical training. I am talking force on force, move to cover drills, responsive shooter drills, etc. Shotguns are not the ultimate answer for every situation. Like was mentioned earlier....You are responsible for every ballistic moving down range. Every time you pull a trigger, you WILL be held liable for the innocent person outside your house that gets killed or injured.

Your time would be better spent learning one weapon well than learning a few half ass. The handgun can also be carried in many states with a concealed carry permit and is a more versatile weapon. The shotgun is an effective weapon if used right, but you need to understand its limitations.

As far as the argument of defeating body armour. Many criminals now days do wear vests. There is an easy solution though. We were always taught to shoot in threes (two to the chest, one to the head, or two to the chest, one to the groin) in order to defeat body armour.

The argument against a shotgun being used against body armour is actually not that strong. Just take out the legs. One cool thing about 00 Buck is that you can skip it off the ground too (ie. under a car to take out someone's legs on the other side of it). It is also a good weapon against a body bunker when targeting the lower extremities. Granted, you probably won't ever have to use it for those reasons, but the comment is just to show that it can be very effective in the right hands.

Personally, all my weapons are secured, unloaded in a safe except one that is in a small safe that is easy to get to in my home. My personal home defense weapon is a Glock 31 (with the .357 barrel swapped with the .40 barrel), with a Hogue Grip, Trijicon Orange/Green night sights, and an Insight Techonology Tac Light. I am using Remington Golden Sabre Hollow Points as the ammunition. The .40 cal round is slower, larger and less likely to overpenetrate when compared to a 9mm. Just my personal pick.

[Barut]

Great info Chris, thanks.

[Barut]

Sorry for changing the subject. Chris, where is a good place to get after market night sights for my g23 and what light do you typically recommend?

[Chris B]

Night Sights

Get a sight with a green front and either an orange or yellow rear tritium sight. It is easier in a low light situation to pick up the front sight if they are different colors. I prefer the profile of the Trijicon sights and the white outline on the dots, but PT sights or meprolite's are ok too. I use to always buy my gear from www.gtdist.com (GT Distributors is a Law Enforcement distributor, but they will sell accessories to the public). Note that you will need a sight tool to properly install them yourself. We used El Paso Police Department's range to qualify, and I had an El Paso PD armor teach me how to install them properly when I was in El Paso. Otherwise, it may be cheaper to find a local dealer who offers free installation if you buy the sights through them.

Tac Light

Three main options....Surefire, Insight Technology M3 (90 lumens) or M3X (125 lumens), or a Streamlight TLR-1 (80 lumens). I prefer the Insight Technology M3 because it is extremely easy to take on and off, it is light weight and doesn't change the balance of the firearm much, it is less bulky than a surefire, and the rocker switch is easy to operate with the support hand if you shoot with a proper "thumbs" grip which leaves the trigger hand free to operate the trigger.

I wouldn't bother with a laser unless you have plently of training with one. At close range, the laser will be in the middle of your light beam anyways and it takes longer to acquire a target with a laser than it does to use iron sights. There are plently of studies out there confirming this. If anyone wants to argue this point, first go to a range and try acquiring multiple targets at distance focussing on the laser and then do the same with the front sight alignment. It is painfully obvious why most people do not use lasers. Not to mention, it's one more piece of technology to fail.

Hope that gets you in the right direction.

[JerkWeed]

Avoid putting a sling on a gun for home protection. The last thing you want is to snag your gun on something when you need it most.

[Barut]

Thanks man.