Carrying Israeli Style?

[s.p.e.c.t.r.e.]

In another thread here I read a couple people talking about the Israeli Style. I had previously seen a video on youtube with someone of speaking Hebrew, doing what I assumed to be the "Israeli Style" while practicing a weapon transition.

Is this when you carry your side arm loaded but without a round chambered? Similar to Condition 3 in the Marine Corps.

If so, why is this practiced in the tactical sense? Please share your thoughts. I find this interesting?

YouTube - Weapon Transition

this is that video i mentioned before.

ps. how cool is that shoulder sling for the shotgun!

[jerrylundergard]

In the practical tactical sense I think its usefullness is that you dont "glock yourself" or others on your team before entering the fight.

I mean if its a quick draw contest you may lose .5 seconds so theres that problem. I personally feel holster selection and other factors would slow you down worse than israeli draw. As you see in that video it can be done very fucking fast.

Obviously if you know your going into the shit you want safety off and you want one in the pipe ready to rock. I think there are some scenarios in real life urban america where one in the chamber is usefull. Riding a train and you get jumped by a couple rabid racoons or possums, youll need fast action and possibly with only one hand.

I personally feel I can fight my way into a situation were I could rack that slide in a high percentage of scenarios. If im walking out my door and those wild racoons was waiting to ambush me Id prolly want the chamber ready. I practice the draw OFTEN and personally think id do fine but it aint perfect. One thing I would have lesser chance of is ND or AD. I think safetys would be as cumbersum as racking the slide aside from the fact the safety can be done with one hand.

The thinking is that we are messing around with our guns so many times during the day, loading the chamber, unloading the chamber, holstering the weapon, unholstering the weapon, that having the chamber clear eliminates the possibility of ND. That a quick draw scenario is less than 2% of actuall shottings in the US so its a good trade off.

[mixicus]

That style of carry is reasonable for a single action gun (i.e. 1911 or Browning Hi-power) that you want to carry in a 'hammer down' position some sort for whatever reason. Why??? Because trying to cock a hammer is a finer muscle action than grabbing the top of a slide and pulling. Remember, the finer the muscle skill the more likely it is to go south under stress or without regular practice. Carrying hammer down on an empty chamber has some safety built in as mentioned above too.

There are some draw backs to be aware of. Two big ones, 1) needing two hands to do it rapidly and 2) 'short stroking' during the chambering move causing a feed failure (one more chance for Mr. Murphy to show up compared to carrying 'cocked-and-locked').

Depends on your gear, training and needs as to this style of carrying making sense for you.

[Dolomite]

Think of how many people are armed in Israel - it pays to employ a simple and safe methodology.

SIMPLE in that this particular manual of arms required to take a semi-auto pistol from Condition 3 into a firing mode is nearly universal. It works on most everything from old Walther P38s and Hi-powers to Glocks and Beretta 92s. You don't need to go too in depth on the differences between the more popular pistols when teaching someone basic pistolcraft.

SAFE as in consistent and again, nearly universally applicable to most small arms. Look at the huge demographic make up of their population - and remember that most of them actually are in, were in, or are retired from one of their military branches.

The value of having almost your entire population carrying a pistol in the same way cannot be overstated when it comes to the administrative handling while gunning up or ungunning. It's got to make an armorer's life a little easier.

One more reason that this method of carry is good for the people that might not plan to do a lot of shooting is that the drill for clearing a jam is basically the same motion used to rack a round into the chamber right after they draw.

The more you think about it - the more ingenious it is considering their particular situation.

[younggunz]

I never carried with one in the pipe.
even on deployment.

CQC positions are so tight, it takes virtually no time to rack the slide, and its part of the natural motion.

Jerry has a good point.
holster selection makes a difference.
I am speaking from the pov of a soldier using a drop holster and a tactical length slide.

and that three point sling can be found at any reliable tactical shop...

[BPA00]

I'm thinking of getting a small frame revolver for conceal/carry... I LOVE my G19, but I'm too nervous to carry it on my person w/ one in the chamber... The phrase "glocked" has been termed for a reason...

[Barut]

Originally Posted by BPA00

I'm thinking of getting a small frame revolver for conceal/carry... I LOVE my G19, but I'm too nervous to carry it on my person w/ one in the chamber... The phrase "glocked" has been termed for a reason...

People don't get "glocked". They negligently discharge their weapons. Keep your finger away from the trigger unless you're intending to fire the weapon. It's not rocket surgery. A gun is a tool. A quality weapon will operate as designed; it's supposed to fire a round when the trigger is pulled. In summary, no one gets "glocked". Careless idiots shoot themselves.

[joeyd77]

I usually carry with a loaded mag and empty chamber unless I'm going into a bad area or am out hunting. Even then I leave my Walther on double action mode with a longer trigger pull, probably an inch of travel before it fires.

[CigarCutter]

The Israelis got into this because they did not have a standardized sidearm. Some were DA, some SA, etc. It was a way to insure there would be a round in the chamber, when the weapon was drawn. As far as I know, any unit that is "live" carries a chambered weapon.
If you want to train like crazy, this is certainly one way to carry a weapon, although it does require two hands to draw and an awful lot of reps.
I think you'd be better served by a good holster and lots of range time.

[EddieH4444]

Originally Posted by Barut

It's not rocket surgery.

I'm using that one from now on. Good work.