[XTrainer]

I hear a lot of guys on here voice the same thing: "I'd rather the criminal/burglar/mugger just take my money/stuff than risk a fight with him."

This is extremely dangerous thinking.

The problem is that criminals don't think like normal peaceable people. Their actions don't follow the same logical patterns that most would expect. This fact is clearly evident from the evening news, but still, many people choose to ignore it and think that the criminal mind is really no different from the rest of ours.

I'll share a little story I heard Thursday from a classmate. One of his friends got mugged. He gave up his money, and took a bullet in the back for it (he was lucky, he lived). Another classmate told of a female friend who also gave up her money and was subsequently raped.

The idea of "appeasing" a criminal in order to avoid being hurt is falicious. They DON'T think like we do, so don't expect to be treated better because you give something up.

Now, I'm not saying that you should ALWAYS pick a fight with your assailant. I am saying that believing you can negotiate with him is a bad (dangerous) idea.

[RandomCL]

That would make sense if every criminal fit your stereotype. Some people need money and will hurt someone for it; that doesn't make them completely insane, just less sympathetic to others' feelings. Saying "give me your money or I'll kill you" to someone doesn't make you insane, it makes you desperate.

[XTrainer]

Fine. Call it "desparate" if you want. What I'm saying is that its very dangerous to assume that because you give something up, you won't be harmed.

[Guardian]

Originally Posted by RandomCL

That would make sense if every criminal fit your stereotype. Some people need money and will hurt someone for it; that doesn't make them completely insane, just less sympathetic to others' feelings. Saying "give me your money or I'll kill you" to someone doesn't make you insane, it makes you desperate.

It's a play on words here, the whole point that was being made was completely missed here or at least that's how I'm viewing you comments.

Whether they are desperate or off their rocker is not the cause irregardless if they need money and excuse me using the statement "less sympathetic to others" is definately an understatement pure and simple, rob a bank or convience store then, then they can convince themselves they are taking from the organization instead of the individual.

[philong]

Regardless of the persons motives or reasoning I am not in the habit of "rewarding" someone for attemtping to violently take what is mine. If he wants what I have he can get it the same way I did - HARD WORK.

[zfolwick]

"give me yer money" is street talk for "I wanna spar. . . I'll play the newb and you go 100%"

[crowztongue]

giving in to any criminal will result in them taking you a lot farther than you want to go. fighting back is worth dieing. attack their weapon with your hand while moving to the side, then attack the eyes, groin, and lips. bite, do what you have to do, but win. getting raped or killed without fighting back is wrong. better to die with honor.

[Gregster]

Originally Posted by philong

Regardless of the persons motives or reasoning I am not in the habit of "rewarding" someone for attemtping to violently take what is mine. If he wants what I have he can get it the same way I did - HARD WORK.

You think being a mugger isn't hard work?

You think it's easy to stalk someone, maybe waylay them into an alley or behind a building, waiting and waiting and waiting for just the right moment until *BOOOO-YAH!* You jump 'em, struggle, maybe roll around for a bit until you subdue them. Let's say you roll some asshole and it turns out all he's got in $3.23 and a fuckin' bus pass...then you done gone and wasted all that time mugging some broke assholes when you should have been mugging that other dude, the one wearing the Brooks Brothers suit carrying the Victorinox attache case...maybe if you're lucky, you can stuff the dude you beat up in your car and drive around forcing him to withdraw cash with his ATM card...goddam $300 limit...how the hell am I supposed to make rent? Wait, we're not talking about *me* here...

Originally Posted by RandomCL

Some people need money and will hurt someone for it; that doesn't make them completely insane, just less sympathetic to others' feelings.

Thus. if you must walk through a dangerous neighborhood after dark, do so in the company of a big purple dinosaur with a goofy-assed voice and a highly-refined sense of empathy.

"Don't go around muggin'! Because when you jack a fool, you're not considering their *feelings*! I loooove you! You looooove me! Don't do strong-arm robb-errrr-ry!"

Originally Posted by XTrainer

Fine. Call it "desparate" if you want. What I'm saying is that its very dangerous to assume that because you give something up, you won't be harmed.

Is it also not dangerous to assume that if you resist, you will prevail over the mugger and not get hurt?

I see what you're saying, XTrainer. And yeah, it does make some sense. And yeah, you can't just assume that if you hand over your goodies, you get away unharmed. The simple reality is that you cannot find yourself the target of a criminal who makes his bread by forcing/coercing people into doing things under the foregone conclusion that "If I ______, then my assailant will surely ________."

Clearly, you oppose acquiescing to a mugger; I don't think you'll find anyone on this board (or any other, so far as that goes) that likes to entertain the idea that they might get mugged. You seem to be an advocate for fighting back; well, considering that Sherdog *is*, after all, an online community of people who generally share an interest involving spending their leisure time training to handle violent incidents, some folks will surely agree. And you absolutely believe that cooperation with a mugger is no sure ticket to going home alive and unharmed; I can't argue with this at all.

But am I supposed to believe that the acquaintence of yours who got popped in the back even after he complied would have fared better trying to fight back? Either way, you're probably looking at taking a bullet. I think the only thing anyone can do is try and assess the situation, consider your options (fight, flee, or hand over your stuff) and go with it. Unless I was heavily outnumbered or staring down the business end of a handgun, I would probably fight. I might be a fool for doing so. There's no such thing, I think, as a happy ending to a violent crime, but rather only a couple of less-shitty ones.

Regarding the discussion about the criminal mindset: contrary to what some folks clearly think, the thought process and motivations of a predatory criminal who robs people is usually not that hard to figure out. You have something, they want it. They also generally do not want to tangle with anyone and have to fight and risk changing roles from "attacker" to "defender." The generally mark as victims people they think they can overpower, which is why prevention works well. Me...I avoid dark/blind corners, stand tall, walk in a brisk and authoritative manner, appear to be aware of my surroundings and maybe even pull a pissed-off looking face; at 6'3", 215 pounds, I think this makes me an unattractive target.

[Chesten_Hesten]

That would make sense if every criminal fit your stereotype. Some people need money and will hurt someone for it; that doesn't make them completely insane, just less sympathetic to others' feelings. Saying "give me your money or I'll kill you" to someone doesn't make you insane, it makes you desperate.

Its really not my concern what some fuckers mindset is, only his actions.

My mindset is; if you initiate and escalate the attack to gain my property, I'm certainly willing to kill you for it, or in the least make it the most hard fought score you ever won.

Its obvious people that would assault and rob have no concern for others. I certainly have no concern for them.

Fuck'em. Let them eat lead.

[zfolwick]

Originally Posted by Gregster

Regarding the discussion about the criminal mindset: contrary to what some folks clearly think, the thought process and motivations of a predatory criminal who robs people is usually not that hard to figure out. You have something, they want it. They also generally do not want to tangle with anyone and have to fight and risk changing roles from "attacker" to "defender." The generally mark as victims people they think they can overpower, which is why prevention works well. Me...I avoid dark/blind corners, stand tall, walk in a brisk and authoritative manner, appear to be aware of my surroundings and maybe even pull a pissed-off looking face; at 6'3", 215 pounds, I think this makes me an unattractive target.

psychological prevention. . . it's used heavily by the military cuz it works like a dream. From the robber's point of view, they are taking their lives in their hands to mug you so they will pick somebody who looks like the victim: hunched shoulders, looking down at the ground as they pass you by, keeping your hands close to your chest. Body language speaks alot.

when I joined the military, I went in as a pretty healthy looking guy, but when they worked us out for a few weeks, with all the heat and sweating and my VERY low fat diet, by the end of Basic Training people thought I was a scrawny little bitch-- I was just down to something like 10-ish% bodyfat. Now again, I'm back up to 223 lbs, 6'4" and 15% bodyfat and people don't bug me anymore.