357 Sig

[SamuraiRat]

I'm looking into buying a Glock finally. I have a 1911 with a 4.25" barrel. I guess now I'm looking for capacity. Currently my dealer has a couple of Glocks(19, and 31). I was pretty much gonna go for 19, but decided to look up the 31.

On YouTube I saw the 31 in action. It's loud as hell. Reminded me of that scene in Robocop, when he's on the range. Other than that on some forums I saw how the 357 Sig is supposed to be like a 357 magnum but shorter, I didn't really understand what they were getting at.

Also I was wondering being that this round shares characteristics with the 40 S&H supposibly, I was wondering if it was more or less powerful than the 40 S&W? (more powerful than a 45 for that matter?)

What kind of kick does it Have?

One thing I did learn from thoses forums is that the 9mm is quick, and one regular round pierces but doesn't f**k up someone like a 45. That's why it takes a few rounds to drop someone if you don't hit em somewhere vital. R. Lee Emry said, "if you carry around a 9mm you might as well be carrying a 22." What kind of damage will this 357 Sig to an intuder?

Basically whatever y'all can tell me. Besides the facts I'd love to hear your opinions. Thanks.

Oh and I'm eager to hear what ya have to say about the 9mm.

[Barut]

Shot placement is absolutely vital with any pistol round. You're not going to stop anyone with poorly placed shot with any of the popular pistol rounds.

Your statement regarding the 9mm "piercing" confuses me. With good expanding ammunition, a 9mm is perfectly adequate for self-defense.

The .357 sig is simply a .40 casing necked down to a 9mm bullet. The result is a cartridge with more powder capacity than the 9mm resulting in greater potential for velocity. The recoil and muzzle blast are significantly more than with the 9mm. Since the .357 is based on the .40, one can buy a G23 and then get a barrel for a G31 and effectively have both a .40 and a .357. All of the other parts are the same.

R. Lee Emery is an actor. I'd be as likely to trust his judgment about firearms as Steven Seagal's about fighting.

[mixicus]

Caliber wise for defensive applications...carry a reliable .38 Special or 9mm or larger firearm loaded with modern quality hollow points (Federal, Winchester, Speer,...) and you'll be fine. You need to be in minimum penetration range of 9-12". Everything else is just dribble for gunwriters to argue over. It's really a matter of what is comfortable for you to shoot and the economics of ammo cost for practice/training. Regular practice and training with a 9mm or 40S&W will get you much more than having the latest Delta-SEAL-Ninja Deathray 2000 with laser target designator that's getting pimped by gun rags that you rarely shoot.

As for the 357Sig, interesting idea to start with but did we really need it? The success of semi-auto trying to mimic performance of revolver rounds for defensive applications has been lacking. Some examples are 10mm (.41Mag), 357Sig (357Mag) and 44AutoMag (44Mag). Same can be said about stuffing revolver cartridges into semi-autos. If you need serious power from a handgun for a specific application (i.e. hunting), do it right and get a revlover.

From a pratical defensive stand point, the 357Sig round has been around for about 15 years but the list of agencies that use it is VERY small. The other calibers mentioned work very well and have been adopted by armed agencies around the world for years. With 9mm, 40S&W or 45ACP, you can walk into any gun shop or Walmart and get ammo by the case or quality defensive rounds. Can't do that for a 357 Sig. The price of Winchester 'white box' FMJ rounds is about $30/50 for 357Sig v. $12/50 for 9mm or $19/50 for 40S&W.

Bottom line: Unless you have a very specific niche need, 357Sig is the answer to a question that probably does not exist.

[Lord of Lies]

Stick with a 9 or a 45. All of these new cartridges over the years have supposed to kill off/replace the 9 and 45, but it hasn't happened. Both of those calibers have been killing people for 100 years. Get a caliber that's easy and cheap to get ammo for and practice at the range, that's what counts.

[Bamaispriceless]

Originally Posted by Barut

Shot placement is absolutely vital with any pistol round. You're not going to stop anyone with poorly placed shot with any of the popular pistol rounds.

Your statement regarding the 9mm "piercing" confuses me. With good expanding ammunition, a 9mm is perfectly adequate for self-defense.

The .357 sig is simply a .40 casing necked down to a 9mm bullet. The result is a cartridge with more powder capacity than the 9mm resulting in greater potential for velocity. The recoil and muzzle blast are significantly more than with the 9mm. Since the .357 is based on the .40, one can buy a G23 and then get a barrel for a G31 and effectively have both a .40 and a .357. All of the other parts are the same.

R. Lee Emery is an actor. I'd be as likely to trust his judgment about firearms as Steven Seagal's about fighting.

Again, Barut gets it. And, again, I agree with him 100%. At a Gelatin test yesterday, CORBON Pow'rball expanded to 81mm and had like 17.5 inches of penetration (I forget the chrono numbers). It was perfect. That is very comparable and even better in some ways than .40's.

I love puppies. Save the wilderness!

[jerrylundergard]

Originally Posted by Bamaispriceless

Again, Barut gets it. And, again, I agree with him 100%. At a Gelatin test yesterday, CORBON Pow'rball expanded to 81mm and had like 17.5 inches of penetration (I forget the chrono numbers). It was perfect. That is very comparable and even better in some ways than .40's.

Random rant to no one in particular...

Some of you motherfuckers need to realize that there i no magic fucking pistol or rifle. Get a Glock 19, shoot the shit out of it and get professional training. EVERY FUCKING THREAD HERE IS ABOUT GOD-DAMN GEAR. When do you fuckers train? Seriously, when do you go to training courses or use these live? We can gear each other all day. But it is MINDSET, TACTICS, SKILL, GEAR in that fucking order. To be honest, anyone who knows alot about actually fighting with a pistol recommends Glocks, Sigs, H&K's, and M&P's. Most .45's jam too much when used alot and have many other down sides. Who really cares. Buy a quality pistol and learn how to use it. And get off AR15.com and those other shit-ass gear sites (joking here, but I dislike them).

I just got back from a professional training course today, and the head instructor did a torture test with his PERSONAL G19 where he shot 1,000 rounds in 20 minutes or maybe a little less. Guide rod flew off and the damn glock still fired. There were a couple of simple malfunctions that are credited to the ammo, but Glocks work. At a lecture today, a guy let us file on his glock. The same guy also has thrown his glock 35 yards, picked it up, and unloaded an entire magazine into a target with no malfunction. I have also seen a picture of a glock that was shot during a police training session and the thing continue to fire. Glocks ftw.

Did you forget your medicine today?

ANyhow, many of us like to shoot the shit about "gear". Its kinda one of the reasons this forum is here.

You have some decent knowledge about this subject and its good to hear your opinion about all things guns but the condescending attitude stinks.

[Bamaispriceless]

Originally Posted by jerrylundergard

Did you forget your medicine today?

ANyhow, many of us like to shoot the shit about "gear". Its kinda one of the reasons this forum is here.

You have some decent knowledge about this subject and its good to hear your opinion about all things guns but the condescending attitude stinks.

Dude, what are you quoting? I never wrote that .

Eh, I just get sort of frustrated sometimes. This place reminds me of some of the gun stores in my area. You have a bunch of guys gearing each other, then you have the former SPECIAL FORCES FORCE RECON NAVY SEAL NINJA guy who spouts off about tactics and training he did in the 70's. I just wish we would talk more about what counts and less about trivial stuff like gear. If you get in a fist fight with no training you may come away with a black eye. You get in a gun fight with no training and you may come away dead. The level of seriousness here is far greater. When dealing with a carry pistol you are dealing with your last line of defense. Who cares whether it's .357 or 9mm...what counts is knowing how to use it. You don't rise to the occasion, you default to the level of training you have mastered. That point was hammered this weekend.

To answer the TS' question. A .357 glock will suck. Get the G19. Get alot of 9mm ammo. Learn how to shoot it (not saying you don't, but get even better).

[Barut]

Before anyone takes Bama too seriously, you all should know that he's not old enough to own a handgun in America. He's not old enough to buy pistol ammunition. He really wants to drive a 4x4 to Iraqistan and kill the terrorisms with his G19. He's a good dude, but sometimes gets a little excited.

[Bamaispriceless]

Hey, no one should ever take me seriously. I'm not trying to be super-duper know-it-all guy. I know jack-shit. I do realize I know jack-shit and am trying to learn and train as much as possible. I'm simply telling you what I have been told by men much more knowledgeable than me who I have had the chance to train with.

Don't take the advice of people on an internet website. Go out and learn on your own. Train and talk with people who know their shit. I'm sharing what little I have learned in a traditional S&P forum way, which is overbearing and asshole-ish.

Again, a disclaimer about me: I know very little. I do know enough to seek professional training and shoot a shit load of ammo and learn. And yes, I am too young to own a pistol. I have however shot one alot. I will be at over 2,200 rounds in 4 months by the end of the week.

[shabababeely]

Originally Posted by Barut

Shot placement is absolutely vital with any pistol round. You're not going to stop anyone with poorly placed shot with any of the popular pistol rounds.

Your statement regarding the 9mm "piercing" confuses me. With good expanding ammunition, a 9mm is perfectly adequate for self-defense.

The .357 sig is simply a .40 casing necked down to a 9mm bullet. The result is a cartridge with more powder capacity than the 9mm resulting in greater potential for velocity. The recoil and muzzle blast are significantly more than with the 9mm. Since the .357 is based on the .40, one can buy a G23 and then get a barrel for a G31 and effectively have both a .40 and a .357. All of the other parts are the same.

R. Lee Emery is an actor. I'd be as likely to trust his judgment about firearms as Steven Seagal's about fighting.

Wow! Somone who actually knows WTF they are talking about? That sushi at lunch must have been contaminated.