Wladimir Klitschko vs fedor?

[Kid McCoy]

Originally Posted by deadinside

Do you know what a b-level is? I think it means that they are the bottom and compeltety unranked or not even close to being ranked. I have seen many heavyweight boxing matches with unranked untaleneted people. Schlit has more talent and athletism than those.(and no assumptions are being made when Fedor out struck him in his match) I would have no problems seeing Fedor beat a unranked b-level fighter in boxing. I talking about the scrubs, like the type that fight in river boat casinos on the Mississippi and have no chance of making ranking or a run at any type of belt must less a world champion. Their level of skill and talent(lack of actually) would make them possible to be beat by fedor in a boxing match. You assume that those untalented slobs would make a fighter with Fedors fighting IQ, not have a chance against him(you don't think he fast, strong or smart enough to not have a chance against some no name , untalented , unranked boxer)? THat is silly and ignorant. There are some crapping boxers out there in the bottom of the sport, like any sport, and denying does not change that fact.

I always wondered what a B-level boxer was.
So, you mean like Mike Bernardo, Mark Hunt & Ray Sefo, that sort of fighter.

[wisdom blows]

yes the type of fighters that beat boxers in K1.

[JackT]

Originally Posted by Jacare Jackson

Who would win between Fedor and Ronaldo in a soccer match?

Which one of all the Ronaldos?

[Karaev fan]

Do you know what a b-level is? I think it means that they are the bottom and compeltety unranked or not even close to being ranked. I have seen many heavyweight boxing matches with unranked untaleneted people.

"B-rank" is an extremely ambiguous term, but I doubt anyone would agree with you on saying that the guys on the bottom of the barrel are "B-rank" in anyway. Would you consider a guy like Minowa to be an A-rank fighter? He still has little problem handling fighters with 0 MMA experience whatsoever.

You grab a boxer with a modicrum of skill, but still not unable to make it big in boxing for whatever reason (Sefo for example), and he'll still be able to KTFO Fedor without breaking sweat in a boxing match.

Schlit has more talent and athletism than those.(and no assumptions are being made when Fedor out struck him in his match)

When Schilt fought Fedor, he was a nobody. He was a skeleton compared to the fighter he is now, he wasn't a K-1 champ, he would go on to get KTFO'd by Yvel and Ignashov. To say that Fedor's victory against him, via a decision, holds any meaning, then you're sadly mistaken.

I would have no problems seeing Fedor beat a unranked b-level fighter in boxing. I talking about the scrubs, like the type that fight in river boat casinos on the Mississippi and have no chance of making ranking or a run at any type of belt must less a world champion. Their level of skill and talent(lack of actually) would make them possible to be beat by fedor in a boxing match. You assume that those untalented slobs would make a fighter with Fedors fighting IQ, not have a chance against him(you don't think he fast, strong or smart enough to not have a chance against some no name , untalented , unranked boxer)? THat is silly and ignorant. There are some crapping boxers out there in the bottom of the sport, like any sport, and denying does not change that fact.

Don't know why you would consider a "crapping boxer out there in the bottom of the sport" to be "B-rank". And just look at what guys like Wlad do while Fedor is throwing looping hooks everywhere. Fedor's style works for him because he has a great ground game to fall back on in MMA. If he goes into boxing, he wouldn't stand a chance against a typical 6round fighter.

[wisdom blows]

fedor has thrown straight punches plenty in the past. if he went into a boxing match, he wouldnt be throwing looping punches everywhere. the man is not stupid. in fact, he is probably the smartest fighter on earth. he would still lose, but dont act like he would be a lost baby in time square against a b-level boxer. fedor is still fast as hell, with sick reflexes, and he has been training boxing for over 15 years.

[wisdom blows]

point is, quit making these stupid threads.

[Renzo Gracie NH]

I know next to nothing about boxing but Klitschko by boxing rape.

[Kid McCoy]

Originally Posted by wisdom blows

yes the type of fighters that beat boxers in K1.

Oops, sore spot from the wounds Ray Mercer opened last month- sorry. I like your responses to me.

Seriously, I’m fairly well versed on all the styles and sports involved and understand the self evident truth that plain old Boxing hardly holds a lock on fighting techniques that work, but there are aspects to it’s applicability that shouldn’t go unstated in these kinds of discussions and I’ve got 10 minutes for ya.

My comment was intended to point out that as witnessed by their achievement in smaller fighting sports, even the lowest level boxers such as Bernardo, Hunt, Mo, Sefo, are not entirely incapable athletes.
Nobody who could get licensed and win a few fights is. Other examples who might be known to Sherdoggers include Travis Fulton, by far the winningest MMA fighter in history with 190 MMA victories, fight winners in the UFC Patrick Smith and Kevin Rosier, Dino Homesey and Carter Williams, horrible cannon fodder in Boxing whilst champions in kickboxing in various federations, and of course there are many others who appreciate the higher level of talent that money will buy via their personal experiences.

To clarify / counter your retort, Mr. Man….. (LOL) :

Why would a capable boxer undertake the necessary cross training to defend low blows and venture into K-1 for cryin’ out loud?

As we know, fighters fight for the potential of big money and historical prestige and K-1 offers comparatively little of either to any boxer who still has higher paying offers on the table.

Guys from a boxing base like Bernardo, Hunt, Mo, Sefo, Nortje, Mirko Filipovic and others have done the crossover to Kickboxing only after deciding they like their chances better in a small pond even at the sacrifice of income, and many have obviously done quite well.

The rest of those at the elite level of Kickboxing have simply expanded their kicking based style or traditional art with western boxing training, hence the term Kick-Boxing, a skill augmentation required to succeed in the ring as Muay Thai fighters discovered in the 1920’s (as a result of mixed-style matches during British and German navel occupations) and Japanese and Western ones were pressed into later, during the 1960’s (due to Karate and Kung Fu ring failures against Western Boxers and Boxing enriched Muay Thai fighters).

Hence all of today’s successful kick boxers have borrowed generously from Boxing, including those trained in Boxing influenced hybrid styles such as modern Shotokan and Kyokushin Karate, San Shou and Muay Thai. (Look em’ up, don’t ever take my word for anything, I’m a troll).
Still others such as Shannon Briggs and Virgil Kalakoda succeeded in their invasions to some degree (though Briggs, roughing them up at ATT for a while was called back up to the majors and earned big money).

And then you have those to which you refer, retired lower or middling boxers who after having exhausted their athletic prime decided to exercise one last chance to squeeze out a paycheck fighting, win or loose, some after having been forced to retire due to evidence suggesting their skills have abandoned them, such as Satoru Suzuki and Akira Oohigashi from Japan, Michael Lerma, Vince Phillips and Arthur Williams from the U.S. and South African François Botha, a former fringe contender and briefly a holder of a minor boxing title (for only about 24 hours, it’s noted here).
While none of these old hulks had much left, after corpulent sideshow boxer Eric “Butterbean” Esch dispatched then top 20 K-1 contender Yusuki Fujimoto, the number two Japanese heavyweight and monster challenge winner, K-1 took no chances of allowing more marauding boxers to displace their ranks and thereafter matched 40-plus year old Phillips & Williams, once capable boxers looking for a one-time check with much bigger opponents from the very top ranks of the organization, Max legend Masato and big Alexey Ignasov, respectively.

As the comparatively small sport, the construction of such deck stacking smoke screens are useful in attempting to “be like” or portray themselves as “better than” the Boxing big dog, but the reality is this:

Boxing, Kickboxing and MMA are not “styles” of fighting vying to be the most effective. They are fight sports in which a fighter can have any style and do anything, so long as they don’t break the rules (which all three sports have). Fighters from any of the three can transcend their first chosen sport through the employment of cross training, and this is something that can easily be done with time and devotion, as MMA demonstrates by it’s charter, drawing fighters from an array of core sports or disciplines in order to cross compete.

With this in mind, If you were to fill a large room with 500 tough, strong, athletically gifted and angry teenaged men who would all make good candidates to succeed in any of those 3 sports, and you made your pitch about joining one of the three and take their best shot at it, you would be faced with the realization that the opportunity to find a gym would be more globally widespread in favor of boxing, and more importantly, after explaining the threshold of financial reward awaiting them in each of the three sports, you would see 450 of the 500 wanting to try Boxing over the other two, and the remaining 50 reconciling themselves from the onset to the idea that their limited natural fighting potential relegates them to the lower paid ranks of K-1 and MMA. – Period.

Money talks and bullshit walks, Boxing dangles the best carrot, and that’s where the best natural fighters will always, always, always go, for an opportunity to makes some big money and some lasting history.
Each of the world’s 198 sovereign nations has a boxing network, which simply is not the case regarding the other two minor league sports.
This is why even an ancient remnant such as Ray Mercer can so effortlessly crush a very recent world champion in MMA at his own game without an hour of cross training, and why K-1 has been very protective against a repeat of the Butterbean-Fujimoto disaster, putting him next with Mike Bernardo, a Boxer about on his level who cross trained and rose to the elite level of K-1.

Eat it up, because it’s what’s for dinner.

[hitman8**]

Originally Posted by Kid McCoy

Oops, sore spot from the wounds Ray Mercer opened last month- sorry. I like your responses to me.

Seriously, I’m fairly well versed on all the styles and sports involved and understand the self evident truth that plain old Boxing hardly holds a lock on fighting techniques that work, but there are aspects to it’s applicability that shouldn’t go unstated in these kinds of discussions and I’ve got 10 minutes for ya.

My comment was intended to point out that as witnessed by their achievement in smaller fighting sports, even the lowest level boxers such as Bernardo, Hunt, Mo, Sefo, are not entirely incapable athletes.
Nobody who could get licensed and win a few fights is. Other examples who might be known to Sherdoggers include Travis Fulton, by far the winningest MMA fighter in history with 190 MMA victories, fight winners in the UFC Patrick Smith and Kevin Rosier, Dino Homesey and Carter Williams, horrible cannon fodder in Boxing whilst champions in kickboxing in various federations, and of course there are many others who appreciate the higher level of talent that money will buy via their personal experiences.

To clarify / counter your retort, Mr. Man….. (LOL) :

Why would a capable boxer undertake the necessary cross training to defend low blows and venture into K-1 for cryin’ out loud?

As we know, fighters fight for the potential of big money and historical prestige and K-1 offers comparatively little of either to any boxer who still has higher paying offers on the table.

Guys from a boxing base like Bernardo, Hunt, Mo, Sefo, Nortje, Mirko Filipovic and others have done the crossover to Kickboxing only after deciding they like their chances better in a small pond even at the sacrifice of income, and many have obviously done quite well.

The rest of those at the elite level of Kickboxing have simply expanded their kicking based style or traditional art with western boxing training, hence the term Kick-Boxing, a skill augmentation required to succeed in the ring as Muay Thai fighters discovered in the 1920’s (as a result of mixed-style matches during British and German navel occupations) and Japanese and Western ones were pressed into later, during the 1960’s (due to Karate and Kung Fu ring failures against Western Boxers and Boxing enriched Muay Thai fighters).

Hence all of today’s successful kick boxers have borrowed generously from Boxing, including those trained in Boxing influenced hybrid styles such as modern Shotokan and Kyokushin Karate, San Shou and Muay Thai. (Look em’ up, don’t ever take my word for anything, I’m a troll).
Still others such as Shannon Briggs and Virgil Kalakoda succeeded in their invasions to some degree (though Briggs, roughing them up at ATT for a while was called back up to the majors and earned big money).

And then you have those to which you refer, retired lower or middling boxers who after having exhausted their athletic prime decided to exercise one last chance to squeeze out a paycheck fighting, win or loose, some after having been forced to retire due to evidence suggesting their skills have abandoned them, such as Satoru Suzuki and Akira Oohigashi from Japan, Michael Lerma, Vince Phillips and Arthur Williams from the U.S. and South African François Botha, a former fringe contender and briefly a holder of a minor boxing title (for only about 24 hours, it’s noted here).
While none of these old hulks had much left, after corpulent sideshow boxer Eric “Butterbean” Esch dispatched then top 20 K-1 contender Yusuki Fujimoto, the number two Japanese heavyweight and monster challenge winner, K-1 took no chances of allowing more marauding boxers to displace their ranks and thereafter matched 40-plus year old Phillips & Williams, once capable boxers looking for a one-time check with much bigger opponents from the very top ranks of the organization, Max legend Masato and big Alexey Ignasov, respectively.

As the comparatively small sport, the construction of such deck stacking smoke screens are useful in attempting to “be like” or portray themselves as “better than” the Boxing big dog, but the reality is this:

Boxing, Kickboxing and MMA are not “styles” of fighting vying to be the most effective. They are fight sports in which a fighter can have any style and do anything, so long as they don’t break the rules (which all three sports have). Fighters from any of the three can transcend their first chosen sport through the employment of cross training, and this is something that can easily be done with time and devotion, as MMA demonstrates by it’s charter, drawing fighters from an array of core sports or disciplines in order to cross compete.

With this in mind, If you were to fill a large room with 500 tough, strong, athletically gifted and angry teenaged men who would all make good candidates to succeed in any of those 3 sports, and you made your pitch about joining one of the three and take their best shot at it, you would be faced with the realization that the opportunity to find a gym would be more globally widespread in favor of boxing, and more importantly, after explaining the threshold of financial reward awaiting them in each of the three sports, you would see 450 of the 500 wanting to try Boxing over the other two, and the remaining 50 reconciling themselves from the onset to the idea that their limited natural fighting potential relegates them to the lower paid ranks of K-1 and MMA. – Period.

Money talks and bullshit walks, Boxing dangles the best carrot, and that’s where the best natural fighters will always, always, always go, for an opportunity to makes some big money and some lasting history.
Each of the world’s 198 sovereign nations has a boxing network, which simply is not the case regarding the other two minor league sports.
This is why even an ancient remnant such as Ray Mercer can so effortlessly crush a very recent world champion in MMA at his own game without an hour of cross training, and why K-1 has been very protective against a repeat of the Butterbean-Fujimoto disaster, putting him next with Mike Bernardo, a Boxer about on his level who cross trained and rose to the elite level of K-1.

Eat it up, because it’s what’s for dinner.

You sir, are a shameless boxing nuthugger. How the heck can you use Mercer vs. Tim Silvia as a good representation of Boxing vs. MMA?

Silvia's style and skillset is tailor-made for a boxer since he is nothing more than a big slow brawler with good takedown defence.

Silvia never uses any high or mid kicks, he never takes any body down, and he never submits any body. In addition to this he is big, slow, and plodding.

He is the perfect type of opponent for a Boxer to look good against.

On top of the bad style match up, Silvia also came in way out of shape and under prepared.

[Kid McCoy]

Originally Posted by hitman8

You sir, are a shameless boxing nuthugger. How the heck can you use Mercer vs. Tim Silvia as a good representation of Boxing vs. MMA?

Silvia's style and skillset is taylor-made for a boxer since he is nothing more than a big slow brawler with good takedown defence.

Silvia never uses any high or mid kicks, he never takes any body down, and he never submits any body. In addition to this he is big, slow, and plodding.

He is the perfect type of opponent for a Boxer to look good against.

On top of the bad style match up, Silvia also came in way out of shape and under prepared.

Well that's all true, but not as fun to write.