[jakeharris74]

Originally Posted by Commissar

I won't debate the Arona issue. He has the best takedowns in the game, and he's one of the absolute best LHWs in the world. Period.

Yes, the UFC has some amazing lightweights. And some of them are even elite - Penn (not ranked top 10 due to too few recent LW fights, but talented), Sherk, Edgar, Griffin and Tavares, but to compare Florian, Thomas, Stevenson, Huerta, etc, to the likes of JZ (#1 or #2 top LW in the world), Gomi (other #1 or #2), Aoki (top 5), Hansen, Kawajiri, Vitor Ribiero, Gilbert Melendez, Ishida... even Caol Uno... the fact is, you cannot compare these inexperienced, up and coming LWs that the UFC has with these veteran, proven elite LWs that fight overseas. Yes, they might be as good one day, but right now they absolutely aren't and they can never be considered as equal until they prove it.

To think that the UFC has the better lightweights is truly ridiculous.

Well, the truth is, they can't prove it until they fight. The only fight we have to go on from the new generation is Aurelio-Guida.

The UFC could very well have the better lightweights in this new generation. Ancient ranking systems based on MMAth will not predetermine this. These rankings were established when half of the guys fighting today weren't even on the radar, and there is no way for them to climb the rankings because they don't even fight the same guys.

This is why all rankings need to be based on orgs only. Rankings where groups of fighters are fighting completely independent opposition is ridiculous and MMAth oriented. We all agree MMAth for the most part is bullshit, yet we structure our top 10's based pretty much on just that.

THAT is what is ridiculous.

[The Heat]

I can't believe this thread is a sticky

It's helping....geez.

[jbobak]

definitely an interesting perspective... but if you want to go simply by exposure of UFC to fans.. it's impossible to argue that TUF has had a negative effect. However, whether or not the show has shifted the focus of the sport to fighters who are less than elite, is also pretty evident. Brock Lesnar, Forrest Griffin, Diego... questionable faces of the UFC no doubt.

[Jay-just scrap]

even though everyone is hating on TUF. As a few guys have mentioned before me, it brings money to the sport. This could be seen as a bad thing but it also brings sponcers which help fighters be able to train full time. This brings better fighters onto the world of mma.

I have also noticed that some believe that the way things are going, the ufc will start straying away from grappling. I believe that it has strayed as much as it will possibly go. without the ground game, the ufc might as well be a kickboxing org. this wont happen being that part of the appeal of the UFC is that there are limited rules: therefore they are more realistic and brutal.

[Jay-just scrap]

Originally Posted by jbobak

definitely an interesting perspective... but if you want to go simply by exposure of UFC to fans.. it's impossible to argue that TUF has had a negative effect. However, whether or not the show has shifted the focus of the sport to fighters who are less than elite, is also pretty evident. Brock Lesnar, Forrest Griffin, Diego... questionable faces of the UFC no doubt.

Forrest Griffin is not a questionable fighter. He is a contender and deserves to be there. He hung in there with Tito in a controversial match and beat Sho Gun who was, after Henderson, the face of Pride at the time.

[jmarion]

Help....

you get to train with some of the top fighters and their teams

it brings awareness, and in turn money, to the sport and fighters

[jmarion]

Originally Posted by Jay-just scrap

Forrest Griffin is not a questionable fighter. He is a contender and deserves to be there. He hung in there with Tito in a controversial match and beat Sho Gun who was, after Henderson, the face of Pride at the time.

I agree! Shogun was considered one of the top fighters at 205... and he was submittted by Griffin

[Puigy]

Originally Posted by rfrankb4

And TUF is a huge HELP to UFC and to MMA in general.
To say that bringing in new fans and thus increasing the cash avalible for organizations to pay ther fighters and put o better shows is bad they would need to first climb over or ignore this huge benefit to all of us
As to the other fighters getting pushed out to make room for the TUF fighters to a small extent that will happen but it should be largely offset by the overall increase in demand for fighters due to the new Live free TV shows that need fighters in addition to the established PPV cards

i agree...we cant expect everything to be perfect. while the show has some negative qualities, i think its a help overall.

[Puigy]

Originally Posted by Jay-just scrap

even though everyone is hating on TUF. As a few guys have mentioned before me, it brings money to the sport. This could be seen as a bad thing but it also brings sponcers which help fighters be able to train full time. This brings better fighters onto the world of mma.

I have also noticed that some believe that the way things are going, the ufc will start straying away from grappling. I believe that it has strayed as much as it will possibly go. without the ground game, the ufc might as well be a kickboxing org. this wont happen being that part of the appeal of the UFC is that there are limited rules: therefore they are more realistic and brutal.

if the UFC really started shying away from grappling...that would be lame.

[rascal13]

I think they show too much BS from inside the house. Get back to the training and fights. Dana is always talking about how these guys are more than just fighters. So and so has a degree.... so and so is a teacher.... yet the TUF guys are portrayed as juvenile delinquents. Seems to get worse each year.

I also liked the idea of the team challenges from season 1. They seemed to build better team camaraderie. Now, as soon as teams are picked, its instant loyalty for your team and hatred for the other team.