[liyer]

...

[Gordova44]

Originally Posted by Commissar

When The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) aired on Spike TV, it was welcomed as a breathe of fresh air in all the reality TV nonsense that was consuming our air waves for the years previous. We were excited to watch MMA on TV, for free. We were excited about the potential mainstream exposure that it could receive. At this point, it never occurred to us what it all meant.

The Ultimate Fighting Championship is getting popular in North America. Now anyone you talk to has at least heard of it, and many others actually watch it regularly. The former bloodsport had succumed to the same Capitalist concepts as Microsoft had, or even professional boxing had. Now, in the UFC, the concept of having the best champion has disappeared. They want a marketable, entertaining champion instead. For a fanbase of wrestling fans and boxing fans, the art of jiu-jitsu or the style of Greco-Roman wrestling is unknown to them. They want knockouts. They want the bloodsport that began in 1993. They don't want 'pussy' submissions, and they sure as hell don't want '***goty' grappling in their pure sport.

One year ago, the Ultimate Fighting Championship had a competitive company. No expectations to live up to, nobody to please, except the hardcore fans that wanted the best champion, not the most marketable. They had a good lightweight division. Then TUF happened.

One year later, the UFC has gotten rid of several of their top fighters, due to losses or grappling-oriented fights. Ivan Salaverry lost a decision to Nathan Marquardt and was released. Frank Trigg was released after getting tooled and submitted by Georges St. Pierre. Matt Lindland has been released after defeating everyone the UFC has thrown in front of him, and dominated in a wrestling fashion.

The UFC is losing it's top fighters to the likes of Forrest Griffin, Stephan Bonnar, and Diego Sanchez. Entertaining fighters, yes. High-end, quality fighters, no. Not yet.

The UFC is losing it's hardcore fans to the likes of new ones. With each contract release, it becomes harder and harder to compare the UFC to PRIDE. Dream Stage Entertainment has PRIDE extremely popular in Japan without sacrificing their top fighters. Why can't Zuffa? Is it the audience?
If so, can MMA successfully thrive in the West?
If it has nothing to do with the audience, why is the UFC failing where PRIDE thrived?

The next few months will be important for the future of the UFC. By January, we should know where the Ultimate Fighting Championships; insterests truely lie.

Discuss.
______________

*This not bashing the UFC, or comparing it to PRIDE. This is an overview of facts. If you disagree, feel free to tell why*

to say that TUF is ruining the UFC is bogus...it's meant to bring it to the mainstream...just because these reality stars are more popular than the guys who haven't been on the show is too bad...i mean any true mma fighter knows that forrest griffin isn't the best fighter out there...but he brings good fights and that what the promoters want...so what that certain guys got released...maybe they could have brought more to the table...boring fighters are exactly that...boring...if you wanna grapple and not throw hands then stick to grappling and submission wrestling competitions...maybe mma isn't for you...we shouldn't hate on griffin, bonner, sanchez,koschek, and the liks because they have gotten better exposure.

[Commissar]

Originally Posted by Zeke's Chaingun

Well apparantly it did happen and I was right all along. I don't get people on here. Only a small percentage of the posters here ever can see beyond the immediate situation. No looking to the future. I say that all of the time on these forums and just take a look here. I said this back in 2005. I was telling people then that TUF was only going to make the UFC richer and with those funds they would eventually bring in the Top Fighters. It's just now FINALLY happening and I called it way back when. I am not trying to toot my own horn, I just want people to realize that there is more going on here beyond what you see on the MMAWeekly Rumors section. There will actually be more events in the future than what you see there. Start looking beyond the horizon based upon what you see happening today. Maybe then you wouldn't have so many people stuck eating their own words.

Okay, you can stop with your "holier than thou" bullshit. You didn't predict anything that wasn't already likely - it was pretty obvious right off the bat that those fighters had talent. They would get big, regardless if they were on TUF or not.

Now, with TUF, we have Griffin facing Shogun - a fight Griffin doesn't deserve. We have Kendall Grove on the main card of UFC 74, and Almeida/Guida on the undercard, which is ridiculous. Leben still gets fights. Florian is likely getting another title shot, even though he hasn't earned one yet (he's improved, but hasn't earned a shot yet).

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Originally Posted by Commissar

Okay, you can stop with your "holier than thou" bullshit. You didn't predict anything that wasn't already likely - it was pretty obvious right off the bat that those fighters had talent. They would get big, regardless if they were on TUF or not.

Now, with TUF, we have Griffin facing Shogun - a fight Griffin doesn't deserve. We have Kendall Grove on the main card of UFC 74, and Almeida/Guida on the undercard, which is ridiculous. Leben still gets fights. Florian is likely getting another title shot, even though he hasn't earned one yet (he's improved, but hasn't earned a shot yet).

You should give credit where it was due. You and I went head to head on this and my position looks pretty darn solid compared to yours in hindsight.

On Griffin/Shogun... you're right. Griffin doesn't deserve that shot. You know who does? Shogun. Shogun deserves Griffin because this is the best way to raise his stock in the US market outside of a shot against Liddell... which wouldn't be as wise of a business decision. Shogun is going to go out there and have a means to totally blow away the UFC fan populous, making him the next big threat. It's a great fight for him to walk in on.

Kendall Grove puts on exciting fights, he is a TUF winner, has a lot of fans, and is a very skilled MMArtist. This fight also has KO written all over it. IMO this is every bit as intriguing a fight as Aurelio (not Almeida) and Guida... which we may very well see anyway in a card stacked with fights likely to end early. Not worth complaining about my friend.

Leben is back on a UFC Fight Night. He's 5-3 in the UFC on a UFC Fight Night. I am not paying to see him. No big deal.

Florian does not have a title shot yet, don't complain about things that havent happened yet.

[HeroOfTime]

TUF is clearly the best thing that's ever happened to this sport

[flommachicago37]

TUF is good for one thing and one thing only...exposure of the fastest growing sport in the world! Has TUF waterred down the UFC's talent pool...YES! Does this concern the die hard MMA fan, who wants to see the best fighters in the world compete regardless of showmanship, marketing, and finishing capability...absolutely! But since this is a sport (and i hate to call it that) that is solely based on a kill or be killed mentality, I am not worried that the likes of less dominant fighters such as Kenny Florian, Forrest, and others will make themselves a main stay once the true MMA fans school the "up and coming" fans on the likes of others out there who are more deservant of a place in the "big show".

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Originally Posted by flommachicago37

Has TUF waterred down the UFC's talent pool...YES!

NO!

[dirtymartini]

Originally Posted by Zeke's Chaingun

NO!

agreed....this TUF watering down the talent pool and people hating on TUF fighters is ridiculous. if TUF happened a few years ago and fighters like shogun were on it, people would be hating on shogun. its complete bullshit.

fact is the fighters that came out of TUF are guys that wouldve made it to the UFC anyway. even guys like chris leben (who i hate) is kept around and shown because he has a personality people love or hate, and hes always in aggressive fights. win or lose, the same type of fighter that the pride nuthuggers would praise pride for bringing back because of his "fighting spirit"

TUF works two fold...it gets exposure to the fighters and brings in fans for them....then it will also develop fans of lesser known fighters when they beat the TUF fighters.

[flommachicago37]

yup!

[Hilti]

Originally Posted by Gordova44

.if you wanna grapple and not throw hands then stick to grappling and submission wrestling competitions...maybe mma isn't for you...we shouldn't hate on griffin, bonner, sanchez,koschek, and the liks because they have gotten better exposure.

Well then I would like to tell Chuck that if you wanna strike and not go to the ground you should stick to boxing or k1....
IDIOT.