TUF: A Help, or a Hinderance?

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Commissar, I can't debate with you if you have no idea what I am saying. I am not sucking up to Dana White, the guy actually annoys me at times, but I do see the bigger picture. You think that this current situation, the current direction, is where MMA is headed indefinately? I think that this is something that is necessary to get through to get where we need to be.

You say MMA doesn't need to be mainstream? Getting MMA mainstream is only going to make Zuffa more money, which will eventually increase the fighters salaries, allowing fighters to make a living rather than working full time and training once off work. This will in turn draw more talent, and allow real talent to make a living by competing.

You are just one fan who is disagreeing, but under Zuffa MMA is making leaps and bounds towards success. MMA needs this, and the fighters need this. You can either accept this stage or choose to not be a fan. It's pretty simple.

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Also, the TUF fighters for their debuts need to be fighting B level fighters their first time in. It's important. Half of them weren't even on the first live PPV broadcast, but were on the undercard. So what? What are you crying about? They won their first fights and are now taking steps up in the world to top B level fighters, or lower A level fighters. If they win that match, then you might see some even greater fights. I'm not sure what you are complaining about. Alot of people were saying Gassaway was going to beat Diego, and now all of the sudden they are protecting Diego. What about Spratt? He is well respected and well liked. A lot of people claimed he would KO Koschek and expose his weakness. Instead, it was the other way around. There are rumors of Diego taking on Diaz next. Do you not think that is a huge challenge, a worthy challenge? I don't see what you are complaining about. I think part of the problem is coming from us veteran fans. We think we know so much and we look down on these new fans from TUF and we try to tell them that they don't knwo shit, that their TUF hero's are average, that they are being protected, and then we come to start believing that nonsense. Are they protected? Well, they are not fed to TOP TEN guys right away, not should they be. They are being groomed, by fighting legit tough fighters, but not someone that has far more experience or is an insurmountable challenge.

The time to bitch would be if this continues. If you see Diego continue to fight guys that he "should" beat, then you have a right to bitch. But these guys have had their first fights. Who has had a second fight? Leben, Quarry, Swick, and Koschek? Who have been their opponants for the second fight? Cote, Sell, Ray, and Spratte. And those 4 weren't even the winners of TUF. I'd say that there is nothing to be complaining about at all.

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Originally Posted by anthony27

Welcome back Glassjoe42. I share a similar experience being here during the first UFC and then eventually sort of forgetting about it. But TUF 1 brought me back full swing. Even before that i was watching some pride events at some MMA gatherings but till TUF 1 then actually finding sherdog it really helped me to keep track of what's going on. Do research discuss and everything. So i know TUF is a very good thing for MMA.

The basic debate is this:

Arguement A:

Ufc doesn't have the money to pay top talent right now.

UFC is being rewarded for savvy marketing and not just best fighter vs. best fighter.

it's finding success in doing this.

It will continue doing this if it is successfull.

so

There will be no more best fighter vs. best fighter.

and true fans want to see best fighter's competing against each other.

therefore

true fans will not be happy with the level of competetion in the ufc

Arguement B

Ufc doesn't have the money to draw top talent right now.

UFC is being rewarded for savvy marketing and not just best fighter vs. best fighter.

it's finding success in doing this.

This will continue in building a fanbase for the sport until it reaches a high support level. (becomming mainstream)

Once it is mainstream the money and endorsements will be finicing to draw better talent.

Once UFC is mainstream there will be an overall widespread appreciation and demand for better talent.

The UFC must then deliver the better talent.

Since it has the money to do so it will certainly draw that talent.

Better pay and better talent to the UFC.

and true fans want to see best fighter's competing against each other.

This is good for the ufc.

I may have missed a couple of points but that's basicly it. I am not happy with certain match-ups and certain "fighters" becomming instant MMA stars but I take it with a grain of salt. I take it as a serious step in the right direction. True MMA fans can appreciate this changeover while being concerned that mma is not going in the right direction at least in the US but hey there's still pride and you just got to have a little faith when it comes to the ufc.

When the UFC started it was a brilliant marketing tool as well that did it. The gracies purposely picked royce gracie being so scrawny and only 170 lbs instead of rickson to step in and fight since the size difference was so much more apparent and even that much more intriquing. They wanted to show how bad ass BJJ was by putting in a guy who would be an unlikely champion against these giants. So, currently there is more marketing going on and I believe the ufc is back on the right track for reviving this sport in the US. i'm not worried about the sport becomming a bunch of fluff. You just gotta have faith and hold on for the ride.

Don't worry about the TUF guys either, most of them may just be sheep waiting to be slaughtered. These TUF heros to the new fans will be slain by unknown warriors with unrivalaled skill, speed and ferocity. Their blood will spawn a new kind of fan for a new breed of warriors. These unknown warriors are out there and are quietly preparing to do battle.

Anthony, you understand it personally. Commissar is arguing Point A, and I am saying Point B. Once you have your strong base established, you business is making money, people will pay to see the best fighters fight the best, but we are in a growing stage that some of us long time fans seem to forget that we are in. Once we grow beyond this, we will get what is best. Things cannot be perfect all of the time. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward.

BTW, I think Frankin over Lindland via strikes, R2

[anthony27]

ZEKE,
I am in total agreement with you and in total agreement with TUF being good for the UFC and MMA as a whole.

Yes it pisses me off to see suddenly stars while good fighters who would trash them are getting cut. But, It is the real begining of mainstreaming MMA in America. With the help of the internet and forums like we're on now it can only happen more rapidly.

Btw i also agree, Franklin would definitely knock out Lindland. Lindland just has not proven that he desrve a shot at the title. He needs to stop bitching and fight his way to the top and not use lay and prey tactics and then act like he just kicked someones ass and suddenly deserves a shot to dry hump the champion en route a victory (which will be his only strategy and it wouldn't even work) A fighter like franklin is too well rounded and will not let that go down. That which i'll call LINDLANDISM for lack of a better term, is what needs to be kept in check, and that's exactly what's happening.

[Remember Me?]

You know whats good about TUF? It proves that it's not just senseless violence. All the people in the media who bash MMA should watch TUF.

They say it's not a sport and it's all about people beating each other up. Yet, everybody in the house gets along, they encourage each other (even fighters on the other team), train together, form friendships, and even shake hands and say "good job" after fighting. It really proves there humility in the sport.

[PorkchopExpress]

The so called purity of the sport became tarnished the second the 1st rule was added

I keep hearing people mention the rules and economics being tooled towards making the fights more exciting... and that this is a recent thing. Moreover, comparisons to Pride being made.

Here are the simple facts:

This is a trend that started at the 1st UFC

the use of a cage was to lend for drama to the event, as was there being no hand protection

the 1st UFC had rounds.. though none went to a 2nd round, the 2nd UFC did away with rounds

eventually some more rules were added i guess to make the sport less brutal as not to be banned, blah blah blah, you see Gi's vanish fro the sport, more fighters cross train and become more complete fighters

meaning that the ground game became more drawn out as fighters learned to counter and stall most submissions

the fights went longer, and fighters became exhausted with the no time limit/ no round format... the fights got boring and people stopped watching...no viewers, no money, no sport on tv

so they changed to provide better fights for more people to watch

you think Pride doesnt have rules in place to make for better fights? No elbos and no head butts right? why? not safety
less fight ending cuts

economics are a factor too.. fighters know they have to be exciting to stick around, but they also need to win, so this hopefully will make more fighters well rounded

people like chuck becuz he knocks people out.. chuck knocks people out because he has the ability to stay on his feet

we dont see the one sided ass whoopings of the old days simply because the fighters are different now

im going to conclude my rant with this..

Every large media exposer to any martial art as aused an influx of retards and celebs (famous retards). After the Korean war karate and jujitsu started becoming known and you start seeing it pop into movies, and then people wanna learn it.
Then in the 70's Kung Fu and such.. JKD schools popped up everywhere, then Ninjitsu in the 80's, then BJJ in the 90's.
The trendy martial artists always fade quickly when the realities of fighting become apparent, leaving us with only those who really love to train. Plus it give those of us who have been cross training since the 1st UFC the fun of pwning these trendy yuppie spawn as they wander in the school after signing year long contracts

and then we can laugh with our instructors every month when the check arrives and they dont

stop bitching, and enjoy

[Kryodus]

What drives the UFC? What drives Pride? What drives the world?


cash rules everything around me cream get the money dollah dollah bills yall

[bloodfeud]

Originally Posted by Outlaw Steakhouse

on outlawsteakhouse.com, email customer service to find out how to chat with Forrest and Chuck on Wednesday. No purchase required for sherdog forum members.

that's kind of bogus. no commercial plugs on threads. Not even for TUF or UFC champs. What the hell?

[mannywankenobi]

Originally Posted by Kryodus

cash rules everything around me cream get the money dollah dollah bills yall

WuTang forever!

[PorkchopExpress]

token post