[Commissar]

When The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) aired on Spike TV, it was welcomed as a breathe of fresh air in all the reality TV nonsense that was consuming our air waves for the years previous. We were excited to watch MMA on TV, for free. We were excited about the potential mainstream exposure that it could receive. At this point, it never occurred to us what it all meant.

The Ultimate Fighting Championship is getting popular in North America. Now anyone you talk to has at least heard of it, and many others actually watch it regularly. The former bloodsport had succumed to the same Capitalist concepts as Microsoft had, or even professional boxing had. Now, in the UFC, the concept of having the best champion has disappeared. They want a marketable, entertaining champion instead. For a fanbase of wrestling fans and boxing fans, the art of jiu-jitsu or the style of Greco-Roman wrestling is unknown to them. They want knockouts. They want the bloodsport that began in 1993. They don't want 'pussy' submissions, and they sure as hell don't want '***goty' grappling in their pure sport.

One year ago, the Ultimate Fighting Championship had a competitive company. No expectations to live up to, nobody to please, except the hardcore fans that wanted the best champion, not the most marketable. They had a good lightweight division. Then TUF happened.

One year later, the UFC has gotten rid of several of their top fighters, due to losses or grappling-oriented fights. Ivan Salaverry lost a decision to Nathan Marquardt and was released. Frank Trigg was released after getting tooled and submitted by Georges St. Pierre. Matt Lindland has been released after defeating everyone the UFC has thrown in front of him, and dominated in a wrestling fashion.

The UFC is losing it's top fighters to the likes of Forrest Griffin, Stephan Bonnar, and Diego Sanchez. Entertaining fighters, yes. High-end, quality fighters, no. Not yet.

The UFC is losing it's hardcore fans to the likes of new ones. With each contract release, it becomes harder and harder to compare the UFC to PRIDE. Dream Stage Entertainment has PRIDE extremely popular in Japan without sacrificing their top fighters. Why can't Zuffa? Is it the audience?
If so, can MMA successfully thrive in the West?
If it has nothing to do with the audience, why is the UFC failing where PRIDE thrived?

The next few months will be important for the future of the UFC. By January, we should know where the Ultimate Fighting Championships; insterests truely lie.

Discuss.
______________

*This not bashing the UFC, or comparing it to PRIDE. This is an overview of facts. If you disagree, feel free to tell why*

[DeepSix]

depends what the overall, long term goals of the UFC are...

it's very very hard to say.

If you say it's a cash grab, you're probably in part, correct. But if that cash goes into developing MMA or keeping the UFC alive, then it's not so bad.

Personally, I see it as a help in the majority of situations...unless you are a fighter trying to break into the scene and not on the show... or if you have a shaky contract with the UFC.

[Jason Horak]

help because it'll bring more money and interest into the sport and create better fighters in the long-run

[ydarush]

hinderence

all it will do is give the main eventers and ufc owners (dana etc.) more money whilst watering down the undercard in terms of talented fighters

fuck tuf!!

FRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMMMAAA AAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rfrankb4]

Matt needed to get his ass sent packing for ignoring his boss and associating the UFC with a gambling site. I like his fights more than most but he crossed a line and i would have droped as well

Trigg well he talked his way to the top once and will be back again if he wnts but with 2x Ls to Matt and 1 very dominating loss to GSP he needs to move to pride or the smaller venues to get some wins on the list again before he will ever be a force in the UFC

Ivan - Great fighter that knows he will be back but when you are on a winners contract that expressly gives the UFC the right to can you if you lose and then he goes and does just that in insanly boring fashion on Live TV none the less Dana needed to send a message with him and Iven knows it.
MMA boxing and kickboxing fighters all are entertainers as much as fighters or they will not get paid cause someone has to be willing to pay to see them. In any of these classes fighters that avoid conflict for the duration of the fight will not be back right away regardless of the outcome cause who would pay to see a PPV of Ivan if all you knew about him was his fight style on Ultimate fight night.


All of these 3 are great fighters and will be back on one of the big shows i they want bt had to be let go and anyone that cant see that is simply ignoring the busiess facts at hand in an effort to further their ideology be it anti-dana or anti-UFC

[rfrankb4]

And TUF is a huge HELP to UFC and to MMA in general.
To say that bringing in new fans and thus increasing the cash avalible for organizations to pay ther fighters and put o better shows is bad they would need to first climb over or ignore this huge benefit to all of us
As to the other fighters getting pushed out to make room for the TUF fighters to a small extent that will happen but it should be largely offset by the overall increase in demand for fighters due to the new Live free TV shows that need fighters in addition to the established PPV cards

[Commissar]

I don't know who did it, but thanks for sticky-ing my thread.

[Commissar]

Originally Posted by rfrankb4

Matt needed to get his ass sent packing for ignoring his boss and associating the UFC with a gambling site. I like his fights more than most but he crossed a line and i would have droped as well

Trigg well he talked his way to the top once and will be back again if he wnts but with 2x Ls to Matt and 1 very dominating loss to GSP he needs to move to pride or the smaller venues to get some wins on the list again before he will ever be a force in the UFC

Ivan - Great fighter that knows he will be back but when you are on a winners contract that expressly gives the UFC the right to can you if you lose and then he goes and does just that in insanly boring fashion on Live TV none the less Dana needed to send a message with him and Iven knows it.
MMA boxing and kickboxing fighters all are entertainers as much as fighters or they will not get paid cause someone has to be willing to pay to see them. In any of these classes fighters that avoid conflict for the duration of the fight will not be back right away regardless of the outcome cause who would pay to see a PPV of Ivan if all you knew about him was his fight style on Ultimate fight night.


All of these 3 are great fighters and will be back on one of the big shows i they want bt had to be let go and anyone that cant see that is simply ignoring the busiess facts at hand in an effort to further their ideology be it anti-dana or anti-UFC

I see what you're saying, and yes, TUF will make the UFC money and gain MMA popularity... but is MMA really getting popular?

Do we, as hardcore fans, want to see a watered down yet popular, 'entertaining' brand of MMA, or the pure MMA that we love today? Less emphasis on the grappling aspect of MMA?

Yes, the UFC is becoming mainstream. But I think the question is, what happens once the UFC is popular? They have more money for fighters... but will every fighter be like Chuck Liddell, and will the ground game be completely eliminated?

It's making the UFC and MMA popular, but I question whether it's really MMA they're promoting.

I look at it as a pro sports team going through it's rebuilding phase. TUF is going to bring in tons of new fans, half of which may really get what MMA is about and stick around. The more fans you have the more money you can make and pay your fighters, the more you can pay your fighters the better the fighters you can get, the better fighters you can get, the better the shows, the better the shows the more the hardcore fans will stick around. Many people are complaining that the UFC does not have the same caliber of fighters as Pride, but what they fail to see is that Fight sports are ingrained into Japanese and other Asian cultures and widely accepted, so they have a HUGE fan base to work off of just over there alone. Here in America they are always fighting against people in our society who feel they must decide what is good for all others to watch, and everything needs to be rated G and flowery and nice. So in the long term I think TUF is going to do nothing more than help the UFC get better fighters, better shows, and maybe more often.

And if you want to know if TUF is working to get fans. We have had a group of us that have been watching the UFC since the early '90s, there was about 4 of us. As time went on we built it up to about 6 or 7 guys who were into it. Since TUF season 1 we have 16+ guys who get together for the UFC events. Granted the new guys don't know what is going on and some speak out about how boring the grappling is, but they are quickly educated and if need be, shown about the finer points of the ground game. I would say out of the 16 guys, there are only 2 or 3 who just don't get it.

[A D]

When Joe Montana and Jerry Rice were the end-all-be-all of football it was all about the 80yd hail marry 90 points a game mentality. Now what do we hear when we watch football? "Defense wins championships" Once the sport establishes popularity, most sports interested guys (and some gals) research their sport, they will learn that KO is not the only way to defeat your opponent. In 10 years the water cooler talk won't be about the hardest hitter, but instead who has the superior ground game.

Short term problems, long term benefits.