[TheMMAn]

Originally Posted by USAMMAFAN

I think they should accept the cease fire (providing hezbollah does) and sit down at the UN with Lebanon and try to negotiate a peace. I dont necissarly think UN peace keepers in lebanon would be such a bad thing.

What are they accomplishng now? Do you really think they are destroying Hezbollah with this ham-fisted approach? If anything they are solidifying support for Hezzbollah in lebanon and in the rest of the world.

But that is just my opinion.

Not a flame here. You make good points, and alot of the world agrees with your points. I have some concerns with these points.

1. Who knows how much damage is being done to Hezbollah. I don't trust arab news outlets to be straight when dealing with Israel. Of course, everyone is stating that all killed are civilians. But, since Hezbollah doesn't wear uniforms, whose to say who are cilvilians and who are combatants. Israel reportedly has a good system of determining where rockets are fired from and sending back immediate strikes. To think that these blasts, coupled with the ground fighting in So. Leb hasn't resulted in a good many Hez casualties is naive. I saw a report this morning from a corrospondent at a lebonese port city. A 7 story apartment bldg was leveled yesterday. It turns out there was a hez commander living and running operations out of the bldg. because of warnings from Israel, there were no fatalities from the bombing. the funny thing is, there had been many outgoing missiles coming from the area in the every day, and none had been fired from the position today.

2. negotiating with Lebanon might be the final resort. But realisitically, Lebanon has not been abile/willing to control Hezbollah in the past. Why should anyone expect any provisions given by Lebanon be respected or enforced on the real enemy, hezbollah.

[USAMMAFAN]

Originally Posted by Spencikiss

if i thought a cease fire and negotiations would work, then yes, i'd be all for it. unfortunately with muslim extremists, they have no interest with that. they only want israel gone. hezbollah might accept a cease fire now, but only because they are getting ass raped. they would regain strength and continue the same shit again once they were able to. that tactic was actually something arafat told his people to do and used mohammed as an example of it being a wise muslim tactic.

no one likes to see innoccent civilians killed. especially little kids, that is the absolute worst. the problem is hamas and hezbollah hide amoungst civilians, so what is israel supposed to do? just sit back and not do anything because of that? israel is just playing by the same rules hezbollah and hamas are.

peace between palestine and israel could very easily be attained - eliminate hamas and muslim extremism. the day the suicide and rocket attacks stop is the day peace will begin.

if they cease fire and flood the entire area with UN peace keepers, like they did in balkans, it adds a completely new feel to this conflict

no longer is it hezz vs israel, its now who ever fucks up vs un peace keepers, if what you say is true about hezz, they will eventually start fighting the peace keepers and that changes the situation from israel doing thing unilaterally, to literally a very broad multi-lateral coalition against hezz .

it worked in the balkans, i dont see why it wouldnt work here (althought the balkans was nato, not the UN)

[Spencikiss]

Originally Posted by USAMMAFAN

if they cease fire and flood the entire area with UN peace keepers, like they did in balkans, it adds a completely new feel to this conflict

no longer is it hezz vs israel, its now who ever fucks up vs un peace keepers, if what you say is true about hezz, they will eventually start fighting the peace keepers and that changes the situation from israel doing thing unilaterally, to literally a very broad multi-lateral coalition against hezz .

it worked in the balkans, i dont see why it wouldnt work here (althought the balkans was nato, not the UN)

and as soon as it looks like things are under control hezbollah will start up again. same with hamas. you can't negotiate with people who thing it's their religious duty as mandated by god to kill jews and remove them from the middle east.

[USAMMAFAN]

Originally Posted by Spencikiss

and as soon as it looks like things are under control hezbollah will start up again. same with hamas. you can't negotiate with people who thing it's their religious duty as mandated by god to kill jews and remove them from the middle east.

well with all due respect i disagree, they got the serbs settled down and they were committing genocide

and even if hezz must be destroyed with military force, why not let the UN or nato peace keepers do it, its much more "clean" of political problems

[Spencikiss]

Originally Posted by USAMMAFAN

and even if hezz must be destroyed with military force, why not let the UN or nato peace keepers do it

why should israel leave their security to anyone else, especially when the UN usually doesn't see israel's way? come on, be real here.

[LightsOutMikey]

Originally Posted by Spencikiss

why should israel leave their security to anyone else, especially when the UN usually doesn't see israel's way? come on, be real here.

on that note i have to ask: why should anybody leave their security to the UN, giving the UN's success rate?

[Ben Zona]

Lets say i would agree more.

I know its against the rules bombing areas with civilian targets in them.

But:

In 2000 Israel went out of Lebanon.

Since then, Hezballa made absolutely no goddamn step towards peace, but got more weapons, more fighters, and more warfare-know-how. And they constantly put up agressions towards Israel. Constantly.

This happened under the eyes of the UN. Why the fuck should Israel give a damn about the UN then? They already got fucked over by it in 1973.

But the second and main point: Growing of Hezballa happened also UNDER THE EYES OF LEBANESE GOVERNMENT AND PEOPLE. Yes, there was Syrian occupation. Yes there is a lot of pressure.
But how in gods name could they think that Israel would just let itself get fucked each 3-4 moths by an Hezballa attack? Why did they support an agressor, and not a peaceseeking, or defensive actor.
When you support an agressor there IS a danger of getting beat up by the actor that is at the recieving end of agression.

Why? Did it take over one week of bombing till the Syrian president asked for help to disarm Hezballa? why not last year?

[bRaT]

Originally Posted by Ultrashogun

Your such a simpleton sophist.

How about I smash you in the head? You get knocked out? Double effect, I targeted your face, not your brain.

...wow. i bet youre sitting back thinking that you made some sort of a good rebuttal and that your reasoning is sound. hehe...fuck, this forum is riddled with tards.

[bRaT]

Originally Posted by USAMMAFAN

but not if the civilians are in the building numbnuts, so if you are sitting in a car and I cut loose on you and the car with an ak-47 and destroy both you and the car, that would be ok as long as i was just strictly targeting the car? Try explaining that logic to a judge.

dont blame me nor lebansese civilians for what your ex muslim girlfriend did to you, stop projecting

do you understand how double effect even works? civilian casaulities are acceptable (not targets) if their is an substancial military target. For instance, imagine this building had a basement that was the Hezbollah HQ, but yet there are civilans in this building. Depending on the number of citizens and the value status of the military target, the building could be attacked and in sync with war moral standards. This philosophy is not targeting them..learn the fuckin difference. Please research on it before commenting again, "numbnuts". I am not your teacher, dont make me one.