[APOLLO]

Originally Posted by Eugenicist

On the note of that comment (apollo's)^^^

Why are Obama supporters all so defensive of Iran but OK with obamas constant threats to invade pakistan?

(not to mention his "pull out of iraq right away" thing eventually fizzling out to the point that now hes pretty close to mccain on iraq, but theres already been 800 threads on that)

The difference are the motives. I don't trust the neocons anymore after these 8 years full of lies. It's beyond me how someone can still think Bush attacked Iraq because of WMD's. They clearly knew what they were doing and it was not the war against terrorism. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and the Bush administration knew it and sold the american people some fairytales about false intelligence information.

But that does not mean, I do not support the war on real terrorists which were hiding in afganistan and are now partly in pakistan. If you fight agains terrorism. I' ok. If you do some imperialistic bullshit I'm not.

[Death March]

Free bratwurst and beer? Two of Europe's most popular bands in concert? Hell, they would have cheered for anybody, even Bush.

[seroteamavi]

Has this concert thing been confirmed? i am curious.

[EsercitoBlu]

Originally Posted by Death March

Free bratwurst and beer? Two of Europe's most popular bands in concert? Hell, they would have cheered for anybody, even Bush.

Who were the Bands playing at his speech?

[APOLLO]

Originally Posted by seroteamavi

You get your perceptions about McCain and he is not senile.
Why you guys not like him? Have a solid reason?

McCain is nto a neocon BTW. Some neocons HERE say he is not Conservative enough. Europeans need to learn our political system better if they think he is a neocon.

My personal main reason for not liking McCain is his stance on the Iraq-war, which he changed in the last years. Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism and 9/11 and the US-Invasion was an imperialistic criminal act, that had nothing to do with protecting the US against terrorism. And McCain supports that war.

I know some would describe him as a fairly liberal conservative. But imo he is neither liberal nor conservative. He is just a new neocon puppet, who will follow the isolationist imperialistic policies that the neocons serve him in order to secure the power of very few people. These policies do not help the normal US-citizen. He is being betrayed, and they found a way to keep him under control. They just create new fears, so that the people hand over all of their rights and follow them blindly...

[Eugenicist]

Originally Posted by APOLLO

The difference are the motives. I don't trust the neocons anymore after these 8 years full of lies. It's beyond me how someone can still think Bush attacked Iraq because of WMD's. They clearly knew what they were doing and it was not the war against terrorism. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and the Bush administration knew it and sold the american people some fairytales about false intelligence information.

But that does not mean, I do not support the war on real terrorists which were hiding in afganistan and are now partly in pakistan. If you fight agains terrorism. I' ok. If you do some imperialistic bullshit I'm not.

You're just not being consistent, and I didn't mention Iraq. We're talking about Iran vs Pakistan. Not to be insulting, but what you're typing seems pretty much like you heard some talking head on TV say it (rah rah 8 years of lies) and are just repeating it now.

I mean, if you hate neo-cons, (assuming you know what a liberal neo-con is versus a normal conservative), wouldn't you hate Obama even more, since he shares a lot of views with neo-cons but even more of the "neo" part and less of the "con"?

You honestly blindly base your political views for the future just because you "don't trust neo-cons"?

And there is the Bush admin and Iraq again- what does this have to do with anything?

Bush=McCain now? This logic doesn't really exist outside of far,far,far-left propaganda posters and on the tie-dye t-shirts of berkeley students.

Not that long ago they had a pretty dirty primary rivalry, dirtier than Hillary vs Obama. I'm sure you remember Bush's "character assassination squad" and the mccain beats his wife, has a secret black bastard child, etc rumors that were killing him. They just end up endorsing eachother so their careers aren't destroyed.

Then you finish up with that you are ok with finding real wmds and real terrorists, are you saying they are in Pakistan but not in Iran? Come on now... I happen to oppose both invasion of Iran and of Pakistan, but theres a ridiculous amount of evidence Iran contributes largely in supplying 'terrorist' orgs with weapons and soldiers.

Since your views lack any consistency other than "mccain is bad, obama is good", I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you are an "i dont really care about politics before this year, but man that guys got charisma" obama messiah worshiper. You know; "I don't vote based on which politician agrees with me, I vote on which politician its the best to agree with". Chances are if Obama supported the Iraq war, your types would support it was. Be honest.

[APOLLO]

Originally Posted by Death March

Free bratwurst and beer? Two of Europe's most popular bands in concert? Hell, they would have cheered for anybody, even Bush.

which bands were that?
I only heard about Reamonn, which is an irish-german popband. That band had their biggest success in 2000 when they had a top ten hit. Not exactly one of Europes most popular bands...

[Beisia]

Originally Posted by Klaipeda

Its sad that we elect such blatant criminals into our most prestigious positions but WE are the ones who put them there (well you fuckers did because I refuse to vote) so this is the best we can come up with. As George Carlin said " Maybe it isn't the politicians who suck, maybe its the public who sucks. The public sucks! Fuck hope!"

Well, use your God given right to vote and try to make a difference. Voting is the only chance you have in a life time to be heard. To count for something and make a difference. That is the only time in your life and you let it slip away. Drop in a bucket, many drops will finally fill it. Vote for change, be useful for once. You and I both see a problem with the current criminals in prestigious positions as you put it. Now is your chance to vote for Obama...will you take it or let life pass you by?

[MODE ROGUE]

Originally Posted by APOLLO

It's beyond me how someone can still think Bush attacked Iraq because of WMD's. They clearly knew what they were doing and it was not the war against terrorism.

It’s beyond me how blind people like you are to the truth and reality of Iraq & the WMD issue. To blame George Bush solely for the misinformation regarding Saddam and his (alleged) WMD’s is completely ignorant.

Take a moment to review the clips below. They’re not long but may in fact provide you with a different perspective on what was happening in Washington long before George Bush took office.

YouTube - Clinton to Saddam: You cannot defy the will of the world
YouTube - Gore To Bush: You Ignored Saddam's Terrorist Ties!
YouTube - Iraq: Democrats' intellegence
YouTube - Bill Clinton: Clear Evidence of Iraqi WMD Program

[Kerabatsos]

My personal main reason for not liking McCain is his stance on the Iraq-war, which he changed in the last years. Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism and 9/11 and the US-Invasion was an imperialistic criminal act, that had nothing to do with protecting the US against terrorism. And McCain supports that war.

Read DailyKos much?

These ignorant statements are getting old. If you truly knew wtf you were talking about, you would know that McCain has been pretty damn consistent about his positions concerning the Iraq war.

McCain received a lot of flak early on for criticizing Rumsfeld and the policies at the time. He was the first to call for more troops in Iraq.