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Old 05-11-2008, 09:27 AM   #21 (permalink)

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YES, you are so correct. I find myself time and time again thinking "WTF? South Park makes more sense than 90% of the other sources of info in our society."
Thats because South Park explains it at a 3rd grade level.
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:46 AM   #22 (permalink)

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The Germans persecuting a religious minority...

Who would have thunk it?
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:47 AM   #23 (permalink)
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that Jason Beghe interview on Scientology was pretty crazy, anybody catch it?

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Old 05-11-2008, 10:01 AM   #24 (permalink)

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Originally Posted by DrSatanDracula View Post
The Germans persecuting a religious minority...

Who would have thunk it?
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:17 AM   #25 (permalink)
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The Germans persecuting a religious minority...

Who would have thunk it?
They are not "persecuting a religious minority".

They are banning an organization whose basic philosophies are totalitarian in nature and go against the German constitution.

You see, Germany has a rather unique view of democracy, because the Nationalist Socialist party was able to hijack democracy and use to to gain power, and ultimately public support for the abolishment of democracy. Therefore the German constitution is fundamentally different from the American one, which emphasizes freedom of thought and action as the fundamentals that safeguard democracy.

Germans don't really see that as enough, as they saw that freedom abused to disastrous effect. The German state security apparatus therefore has a bureau that functions as a Constitutional Police. Basically, if your group's philosophies preferable view of the world is a society that doesn't allow for pluralism, elections or a general democratic model of society....then you are not allowed to operate as an organization in Germany.

The basic thought behind this is not to wait until a totalitarian organization becomes strong enough to be a threat or actually make moves to seize power, but nip such groups in the bud before they get off the ground. This is considered neccesary because how rapidly the Nazis were able to gain such a foothold in society that it was impossible to dislodge them.

The very same laws that do not allow muslim extremists to openly call for a theocracy in Germany and bash democracy, or neonazi groups, are the ones that are being used against Scientology, and rightfully so.

Most people know at least a little about Scientology, body thetans, their whole self-improvement schemes and all that. Fewer people know that their ultimate stated goal is to "Clear the planet" - basically make everyone in the world gain the status of "clear", which to Scientologists means that you have full command over your thoughts and emotions, are immune to about 70% of all diseases(including cancer), can correct your vision by thought alone, have perfect recall of all memories, and a variety of other superpowers. Clearing the planet is the mission statement of the Church of Scientology...and doing that entails doing whatever it takes to amass enough converts, enough money and enough political influence so that "supressive" forces that hate scientology cannot interfere with them.

To further complicate things, Hubbard himself wrote(to explain to his lemmings why some of their relatives would want to get them out and criticize Scientology for fleeching them) that 2.5% of the human race were "supressive persons", souls that are irrevocably damaged and hate and fear Scientology because it will lay bare their foul nature. SP's as they are called are seen by Scientologists as borderline demons, horrible criminals who seek to destroy Scientology because they know in a world of clears, their crimes and perversions will be revealed for all to see. SP's must be, eventually eradicated from the face of the planet, and they are totally beyond redemption.

A further 14% or so of humanity are "potential trouble sources", people who have been tainted by contact with SP's and therefore distrust or have some kind of problem with Scientology. PTS's must be "handled", or made to see the light. This is a euphemism for forced conversion through "re-education" similar to how communist states segregated doubters and subjected them to brainwashing. If they don't convert, they are re-classified as SP's, and therefore garbage that must be disposed of.

Hubbard states on multiple occasions in his writing that in the ideal world where Scientologists have attained their goals, SP's will be killed, and PTS's "handled". He also makes explicit references to Scientologist's clear duty to infiltrate and subvert government, businsesses and military institution with the aim of making them instruments of Scientology policies. That is the word, from on high, that all serious scientologists work to implement in one way or another. In a perfect Scientology world, there are no governments, no elections, no other religions, no dissent. Everybody is a scientologist and the Orgs are the law of the land, running societies using Hubbard's tech

Now the average "public" Scientologist that has a day job and spends the majority of his time in the real world and just takes classes isn't too involved in all of this. But all "Staff" and "Sea Org"(the hardcores that have dedicated their life to Scientology) members know about these policies and work with them in mind.

This is what is making Germany move to ban Scientology. Not Xenu or thetans or anything else, but the simple fact that at it's most basic level, Scientology is every bit as totalitarian as Nazism, Marxist Communism, or Wahaibist Islam. They just dress nicer and don't use overt violence to work towards their goals....yet. If they felt they could get away with it, they would be killing their enemies, because Hubbard clearly stated SP's could be "tricked, sued, lied to, or destroyed". And that violates the German constitution.
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:26 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Thats because South Park explains it at a 3rd grade level.
Maybe thats what we need. All these liberals spend their entire lives sitting in college lectures or reading internet blogs, and convince themselves of their own genius, without ever applying their "knowledge" to the real world. Maybe these libs need someone to choke them, shake them and say "This shit ain't that complicated". Just use some common 3rd grade level sense and the world works out.

We need borders. People need to work and be responsible. We need to kill our enemies not coddle them. Drugs, alcohol and rampant sex will eventually hurt you. You know, simple, 3rd grade common sense. Like South Park offers.
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:47 AM   #27 (permalink)

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^I've never wanted to see "/sarcasm" so badly. I'm also not sure how that was relevant...
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:59 AM   #28 (permalink)

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Darwinist:

Source for those claims on scientology, please?

Preferably in the material itself.

Furthermore, one must address whether the German "constitutional police" are not simply haters of freedom. The very purpose of freedom of speech, religion, conscience, thought, et cetera, are to be able to expose beliefs which the government might not find tolerable. Ultimately, the rights of man are dedicated to the principle that there may be a good reason to change the system, even by revolution. The fear of the Nazis - a fear largely imposed upon Germany by outside sources - is certainly not enough to rob man of his right to believe as he will.

Arresting someone for being part of a political group is against the right to political freedom. It is also a violation of international law and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which Germany is a signatory of.

Of course, I disapprove of international law in and of itself, but it is damn hypocritical and extremely anti-freedom to persecute the Church of Scientology and its adherents. It is in fact despotic.
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Old 05-11-2008, 11:11 AM   #29 (permalink)

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Think of it like a group that is trying to circumvent the beliefs of your society and overthrow it. Their policy is to plant operatives in high levels of society whose job is to work in the best interests of the group.

This group is also completely intolerant of criticism to itself. It uses a "Fair Game" policy which states:

"ENEMY — SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

This means the use and abuse of the legal system to sue, smear and financially cripple opposition. There are numerous accounts of such acts and many accounts of killing.

The use of persecution is laughable in the context of scientology because it doesn't apply. You're saying that people should have the freedom to practice whatever they want if it's religious. You need to understand that this is a cult. Nothing more.
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Old 05-11-2008, 11:15 AM   #30 (permalink)

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Chriskiss:

Source.

Quote:
The use of persecution is laughable in the context of scientology because it doesn't apply. You're saying that people should have the freedom to practice whatever they want if it's religious. You need to understand that this is a cult. Nothing more.
There is fundamentally no difference between a cult and a religion. The difference is imposed by a social order alone.
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