[Sauron]

Originally Posted by Piper

And the Washington Post? Why don't you address the FACTS that are reported? Dhimmiwatch.org, like the Washington Post and virtually every other news outlet worldwide reported these FACTS.

Why can't face the FACTS and address the FACTS.

Sending your military men, sending arms, directing and carrying out attacks with these are all ACTS of WAR. Iran is already waging war with Iraq. THOSE ARE FACTS.

NOW, with that as a fact, what is the ELECTED government of Iraq, and its military supposed to do?

The sovereignty of Iraq is under attack by the explicitly Shiite Islamic Republic of Iran. Even the president Ahmedinejad is answerable to the Ayatollahs. Saying that religion has nothing to do with the situation is blind and ignorant.

Iran and America have been at war ever since the 70's.

Your facts are "claims" that can't be confirmed and lack credibility. It wouldn't matter if they are true. And it's not like the American government cares if they are true.

Iraqs elected government is in cahoots with Iran. Most of them spend their exile in Tehran. They aren't going to war with anyone; they can't even control their own population. The sovereignty of Iraq is a joke and is undermined principally by an occupying military power.

This is a war of influence between two sovereign states exercising their national interest in the context of national security. Religion plays an important role culturally; but alass it doesn't play much part in the context of Iranian and American brinkmanship in Iraq.

I'm not really interested in debating with you. This is my 2 cents. I know the kind of ill-informed and retarded arguments you'll bring to the table.

[GOD_OF_MUAYTHAI]

also, If this is true, let the american people decide. lets have congress hold a hearing on public tv so every american can hear some evidence. lets call all those washington lobbyists who are whispering in the backrooms for war in iran (AIPAC) and if they cannot produce evidence, call another hearing on why the AIPAC is manipulating our foreign policy for no reason and hold them accountable

[logos]

Originally Posted by GOD_OF_MUAYTHAI

what do you expect ? thats politics, when a neighboring country is overthrown the neighbors always try to influence the new goverment ? and plus the united states is responsible for destabilizing it in the first place...dumbass

I never stated that I did not expect it, in fact, from Iran's point of view, it is the logical stategic thing to do. I was simply pointing out that Iran is indeed engaged in fueling certain elements of the insurgency.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by logos

If you do not believe that Iran is providing funds, training, intelligence, weapons, and logistical support in an effort to de-stabalize Iraq, then clearly- you are the one that needs to wake up.

I am not a warmonger, and would not support an invasion of Iran, but is a clear and unequivical fact that Iran is engaging in these acts.

Do you not think the US presence in Iraq is destabilising?

Or is it perfectly ok if the american government tries to enforce its will on the people - killing those that it doesn't agree with.

[GOD_OF_MUAYTHAI]

Originally Posted by logos

I never stated that I did not expect it, in fact, from Iran's point of view, it is the logical stategic thing to do. I was simply pointing out that Iran is indeed engaged in fueling certain elements of the insurgency.

agreed, the problem is ethnic violence between sunni and shiite and the sunnis are the minority and the shiites have the backing of iran. this is where the problem came in, president bush I believe honestly didnt understand this, and I can imagine him saying "arent they all muslims? " its one more blunder in the long list of blunders we have committed in the iraq war. neo cons are fucking idiots

[logos]

Originally Posted by Sauron

Do you not think the US presence in Iraq is destabilising?

Or is it perfectly ok if the american government tries to enforce its will on the people - killing those that it doesn't agree with.

Yes... we opened the can of worms to begin with, and no, morally speaking, I believe the war to be unjust. However, the truth of the matter is that we are there.

There has been enough finger pointing, which really has accomplished nothing. The question is: what are we going to do now? Which is a very difficult one indeed.

[StudentLoan]

Originally Posted by Ezra Pound

U.S. military officials have said its evidence that Iran is aiding Iraqi militias includes caches of weapons that have date stamps showing they were produced in Iran this year. The weapons include mortars, rockets, small arms, roadside bombs and armor-piercing explosives — known as explosively formed penetrators, or EFPs — that troops have discovered in recent months, according to another senior military official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the evidence has not yet been made public.

That's what my original post was directed at. I will not sit here and argue with you that the Iranians they captured in Iraq were in fact "Made In Iran". I don't doubt that Iran is meddling in Iraq, in fact I'm pretty sure they are. 8 years of war isn't something you forget. But I don't think acknowledging anything you say will do any good, you seem like the Bill O'Reilly type. But I'll bite anyway, see what else you got.

Washington Post, I guess they're a reputable source. That story maybe have been printed by news agencies around the world but just because everyone says something doesn't make it true. If WP printed ten true local stories and one false international story every week, you wouldn't think twice about questioning what you're reading. Not to say that what they're printing is false, but you can't know for sure (neither can I), it's all propaganda.

Addressing the issue at hand, well, Iran hasn't officially declared war but running covert ops. and smuggling arms into the country to be used for insurgency is grounds for war I suppose. Iraq could go to war with Iran but I don't think it would take much for Iran to take out Iraq, not now anyway. If America helps, well they could destabalize Iran like they did Iraq but I don't think you guys can afford to do so, not now anyway. So right now nothing can be done, unless America nukes Iran but that would make them hypcrites (what with all the chastising they're doing about Iran's nuclear ambitions).

What does this post make me?

[busdriver01]

Originally Posted by Sauron

Do you not think the US presence in Iraq is destabilising?

Or is it perfectly ok if the american government tries to enforce its will on the people - killing those that it doesn't agree with.

Our presence is a stabalizing factor. What are we forcing the Iraqi people to do? Its a fact that the majority of them want our help.

[Ezra Pound]

Originally Posted by GOD_OF_MUAYTHAI

what do you expect ? thats politics, when a neighboring country is overthrown the neighbors always try to influence the new goverment ? and plus the united states is responsible for destabilizing it in the first place...dumbass

yeah definitely bad track record, going from elected leader mossadeq to the military strongman the shah, sicking saddam on them, we've been assholes....but no no, we're always right there's a good reason. Namely Israel said so and their oil. Do any of these pro Is ppl (other then the zealots) know there is a happy thriving Jewish community in Iran, that wants nothing to do with Israel? In fact there are more Jewish holy sites there then in all of Israel another fact they don't like too much.

[Ezra Pound]

Originally Posted by StudentLoan

Well if Fox news said it then must be true. Read the next line very carefully. I said that I don't think Iran would mark the weapons they send to Iraq with any signs that could be used to trace it back to Iran. The government maybe Islamic douchebags but they're not retarded Islamic douchebags. I never said Iran isn't helping fuel insurgency in Iraq. I just find it very hard to believe that the guns and bombs they give to insurgents to use in Iraq would say "Made In Iran". That's like me murdering someone then leaving a box of hair, skin, saliva, semen and my driver's license at the crime scene.

This is of course in response to the article the OP posted. Also thanks for calling me ignorant, that was a nice touch.

uh uh uh, Fox News, Washington Post and Dhimmiwatch. All unbias sources.