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Old 02-08-2008, 07:17 AM   #1 (permalink)

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Church backlash as Archbishop of Canterbury calls for Sharia law in Britain

Welcome to your brave new world Europe, your lack of faith, guilt and "tolerance" are helping dig this hole deeper and deeper by the day.


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ury/article.do

The Archbishop of Canterbury's claim that it seems "unavoidable" that some form of Sharia law will be introduced in Britain today came under attack from his own senior clergy.

The Bishop of Southwark the Right Reverend Tom Butler cast doubts on the argument that the Islamic law will come into force in the UK.

He said: "It will take a great deal more thought and work before I think it's a good idea."

Asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme whether the Church of England leader, Dr Rowan Williams, should have been more diplomatic in his speech which sparked the controversy, Dr Butler said: "The Archbishop has a way with language but this was a very heavy lecture."

He admitted that the Dr Williams had entered a "minefield" with his views on Sharia law and it was not clear whether he would backtrack on behalf of the Church of England, on this issue.

The Cabinet minister warned against such a radical legal shake-up in the UK stressing it would be a "recipe for social chaos".

Dr Williams faced a barrage of criticism for arguing that sharia law should be given some form of legal status in the UK.

Voicing the views of many MPs, Mr Burnham said: "This isn't a path down which we should go. The system, the British legal system, should apply to everybody equally.

"You cannot run two systems of law alongside each other. That in my view would be a recipe for chaos, social chaos. British law has to be based on British values.

"If people choose to live in this country, they choose to abide by that law and that law alone.

"It has got to be fundamental and a cornerstone of our country and our democracy that everybody is equal before that one system of British law."

This morning it also emerged that Sharia crime courts are already operating in parts of Britain.

According to a youth worker, a group of Somali youths were arrested by police on suspicion of stabbing another Somali teenager.

But the victim's family told officers the matter would be settled out of court and the suspects were released on bail.

A Sharia court was convened and elders ordered the assailants to compensate the victim.

The Archbishop of Canterbury caused consternation yesterday when he called for Islamic law to be recognised in Britain.

He declared that Sharia and Parliamentary law should be given equal legal status so the people could choose which governs their lives.

This raised the prospect of Islamic courts in Britain with full legal powers to approve polygamous marriages, grant easy divorce for men and prevent finance firms from charging interest.



His comments in a BBC interview and a lecture to lawyers were condemned at a time when government ministers are striving to encourage integration and stop the nation from "sleepwalking to segregation".

The Prime Minister rapidly distanced himself from Dr Williams's view. Gordon Brown's spokesman said: "Our general position is that sharia law cannot be used as a justification for committing breaches of English law, nor should the principles of sharia law be included in a civil court for resolving contractual disputes.

"The Prime Minister believes British law should apply in this country, based on British values."

Dr Williams's words opened a chasm over Islam between senior leaders of the Church of England, who are already trying to deal with an Anglican war over gay rights which broke out after he was appointed archbishop.

The Bishop of Rochester, Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, is facing death threats following his warning last month about Muslim "no-go areas" in Britain.

And the Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu, who has been fiercely critical of Muslim extremists, said last year that "the imposition of sharia law, Britain as a Muslim society - that will never happen".

He said: "Like all bishops I'm waking up this morning to a shoal of emails from clergy asking what's going on."

Culture Secretary Andy Burnham also launched a ferocious backlash against the Archbishop of Canterbury's claims about sharia law.



In his lecture, 57-year-old Dr Williams said that "we have to think a little harder about the role and rule of law in a plural society of overlapping identities".

He added that it would be possible to develop "a scheme in which individuals retain the liberty to choose the jurisdiction under which they will seek to resolve certain carefully specified matters, so that power-holders are forced to compete for the loyalty of their shared constituents.

"This may include aspects of marital law, the regulation of financial transactions, and authorised structures of mediation and conflict resolution."

The archbishop attempted to distance himself from the extreme legal systems run in Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, where adultery can be punished by death and women who behave independently risk harsh punishments.

"Nobody in their right mind, I think, would want to see in this country a kind of inhumanity that sometimes appears to be associated with the practice of the law in some Islamic states - the extreme punishments, the attitudes to women as well," he said.

Dr Williams pointed out that Jewish Beth Din courts already operate in Britain. But these, like sharia arrangements currently existing in Muslim areas, are voluntary understandings conducted with the agreement of participants.

Alternative sharia courts as proposed by the archbishop would dish out enforceable law.

Muslim groups responded cautiously to Dr Williams's proposals. A spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain said: "We will need to look carefully at the archbishop's lecture."

The Ramadhan Foundation youth organisation said the scheme would help build respect and tolerance.

Its director Mohammed Shafiq said: "Sharia law for civil matters is something which has been introduced in some western countries with much success; I believe that Muslims would take huge comfort from the Government allowing civil matters being resolved according to their faith."

But he added: "We are however disappointed that the Archbishop of Canterbury was silent when Bishop Nazir-Ali was promoting intolerance and lying about no-go areas for Christians in the UK by Muslim extremists.

"Unless he speaks out against this intolerance, Muslims will take his silence as authorisation and support for such comments."

Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said Dr Williams's comments gave "succour to extremists".

"He needs to understand that his words carry enormous weight," he said in a Channel 4 interview.

"What he seems to be talking about is a situation in which people are treated differently under the law according to their religion. People cannot be treated differently. Everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law.

"I don't doubt the archbishop's desire to accommodate diversity, but we cannot do so at the expense of our common values."

He described Dr Williams as "muddled" and "dangerous".

Mr Phillips was the first prominent Labour figure to condemn multiculturalism, the Left-wing doctrine which promotes different cultures.

He declared that under its influence Britain was sleepwalking to segregation.

Yesterday he said the "implication that British courts should treat people differently based on their faith is divisive and dangerous.

"It risks removing the protection afforded by law, for example, to children in custody cases or women in divorce proceedings.

"The first people who would suffer would be ethnic-minority citizens. Follow the logic of this extreme multiculturalism through and where do we end up?

With a group of white Christians in Barking and Dagenham deciding they had a conscientious objection to nonwhite Muslims in their neighbourhoods - and seeking the support of the courts?"

Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, said: "I am appalled that the head of the Church of England is advocating that parts of sharia law should be introduced into British law.

"The idea that you can have the moderate bits without the nasty bits coming along at a later time is naive."

Tory backbencher David Davies, an Anglican, said: "I am astounded. Dr Williams is a nice enough man, very intellectual, but he has clearly lost the plot.

"He's one of the most influential Christian prelates in the world and he's supposed to be standing up for Christianity.

"What he's doing is abandoning his own religion. If people come to this country they should be prepared to compromise their own traditions to fit in with the host country.

Tory cohesion spokesman Baroness Warsi, a Muslim herself, said: "The archbishop's comments are unhelpful and may add to the confusion that already exists in our communities.

"Freedom under the law allows respect for some religious practices.

"But let's be absolutely clear. All British citizens must be subject to British laws developed through Parliament and the courts."
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:20 AM   #2 (permalink)

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http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ths/article.do

Sharia law "courts" are already dealing with crime on the streets of London, it has emerged.

The revelation came after the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, called for an "accommodation" with parts of the Islamic legal code in a speech which attracted widespread condemnation.

The Archbishop said parts of civil law could be dealt with under the sharia system but already some communities have gone much further - and it was revealed today that a teenage stabbing case among the Somali community in Woolwich had been dealt with by a sharia "trial".

Youth worker Aydarus Yusuf, 29, who was involved in setting up the hearing, said a group of Somali youths were arrested by police on suspicion of stabbing another Somali teenager.

The victim's family told officers the matter would be settled out of court and the suspects were released on bail. A hearing was convened and elders ordered the assailants to compensate the victim.

"All their uncles and their fathers were there," said Mr Yusuf. "So they all put something towards that and apologised for the wrongdoing."

An Islamic Council in Leyton also revealed that it had dealt with more than 7,000 divorces while sharia courts in the capital have settled hundreds of financial disputes.
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:21 AM   #3 (permalink)

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Well, 40% of British Muslims polled want Sharia law there.

http://english.aljazeera.net/English...rchiveId=18700
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:28 AM   #4 (permalink)

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I think the argument is for Sharia councils to deal with weddings and divorce and minor disputes whilst working with already existing British law. I think all the press is reactionary at the moment. At first I was totally against it because of the way it has been presented in certain sections of the press, but if you actually look at the situations that it may be applied to, it is possible it may be a very constructive move
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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What is British law regarding victims pressing charges vs. the government pressing charges? If the victim agrees to a private settlement is that normally valid?

Oh, and the Archbishop is a fucking nutcase and needs to die and be fed to poor muslim children.
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:49 AM   #6 (permalink)

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Originally Posted by dylanransom View Post
What is British law regarding victims pressing charges vs. the government pressing charges? If the victim agrees to a private settlement is that normally valid?

Oh, and the Archbishop is a fucking nutcase and needs to die and be fed to poor muslim children.
+ Junaita and Juan on the Archbishop being a nutcase.
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:24 AM   #7 (permalink)

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I figured most conservatives would be in favor of Sharia. Are you not in favor of a government and legal system based upon the text of holy books?

Last edited by USAMMAFAN : 02-08-2008 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 02-08-2008, 11:00 AM   #8 (permalink)

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What is British law regarding victims pressing charges vs. the government pressing charges? If the victim agrees to a private settlement is that normally valid?
In strict technical terms, victims never "press charges". All criminal prosecutions are dealt with by the state, and at the state's discretion. In general they consult the victim (as for minor offences if the victim doesn't want to proesecute there seems little point in going through the court system), but, depending on the crime may prosecute even if the victim doesn't want to press charges (the more serious offences + repeated offenders etc etc). All crimes are technically crimes against the state rather than the person.

From reading the article it appears to the police, the victim merely declined to press charges and they thought it wasn't serious enough to prosecute regardless. The private settlement was discovered by the reporter.
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Old 02-08-2008, 11:55 AM   #9 (permalink)

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lol sorry but i cant help to laugh at this situation. the idiot british bring in people with village mentalitys from pakistani tribes who are very underdeveloped culturally and economically. so i cant ever feel bad for them.

its like once my mexicans find out they should be getting payed 3x what they are right now. bad shit could happen. luckily my mexicans arent to smart
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Old 02-08-2008, 11:57 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I figured most conservatives would be in favor of Sharia. Are you not in favor of a government and legals system based upon the text of holy books?
This is clearly why the archbishop favors it ... he does want to dilute the power that the secular government has to legislate law.

It should give christian conservatives pause to consider that this is why we have the first amendment --- so that you don't end up with somebody waiving a 1500 year old book and your face and explaining that it commands you to die.
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