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Old 04-21-2007, 06:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Natural Born Communists? For EEG

Natural Born Communists?

Some economic game theory suggests we may be.
Ronald Bailey | April 20, 2007
Robin Hood took from the rich and gave to the poor. A recent study by a team of researchers headed up by University of California-San Diego political scientist James Fowler suggests that we may all have Robin Hood tendencies. Experimental economists and psychologists from around the world have been watching how people play various economic games as a way to probe the bases of human cooperation. One of the more interesting discoveries is that in economic games some people - altruistic punishers - will take fairly big hits to their winnings in order to reduce the ill-gotten gains of cheaters. Games with altruistic punishers elicit more cooperative behavior among players. In addition, other researchers have found that players will happily spend some of their own winnings in gambling games in order to reduce the "undeserved" winnings of other players.

In re-analyzing some earlier studies, Fowler and his colleagues suggested "that egalitarian motives are more important than motives for punishing non-cooperative behaviour." In other words, people are really more interested in enforcing income equality than they are in punishing cheaters. To tease out motives, Fowler and his colleagues devised a game in which there was no possibility of reciprocity or cooperation. Their hypothesis was that people would spend some of their incomes to equalize the incomes of other players.
In their game, participants (120 college students) were assigned to groups of four anonymous players. At the outset each received a randomly generated sum of money. The payoffs are shown to all the players who are then given an opportunity to give "negative" or "positive" tokens to other players. Each token cost one monetary unit. Giving a negative token to another player reduced the recipient's winnings by 3 monetary units and giving a positive token to another player increased the recipient's winnings by 3 monetary units. After each round, the anonymous group members were randomized to prevent reputation from influencing decisions. Keep in mind that choosing to cut or to boost the incomes of other players is costly and yields no material gain, so self-interested subjects should have no incentive to engage in it. So what happened?

Their latest study in the journal Nature reports, "Individuals who earned considerably more than other members of their group were heavily penalized." On the other hand, players who earned a lot less than other group members received substantial gifts. A majority of players (68 percent) chose to cut the earnings of other players at least once, 28 percent did five times or more, and some fanatic levelers (6 percent) slashed at the incomes of their richer fellows ten times or more. But the game didn't just bring out spitefulness. Perhaps even more amazingly, a majority of players (71 percent) also paid, with no expectation of gain, to increase the incomes of other participants at least once. More generous players (33 percent) did so five times or more, and some saints (10 percent) boosted other players' earnings ten times or more. The researchers note, "Most (71 percent) negative tokens were given to above-average earners in each group, whereas most (62 percent) positive tokens were targeted at below-average earners in each group."

Also, players who earned ten monetary units more than the group average received a mean of nearly 9 negative tokens. In contrast, players who earned at least ten monetary units less than the group average received a mean of only 1.6 negative tokens. The opposite was the case for those earning ten monetary units or less. They received 11 more positive tokens on average while those earning more than ten units received a mean of only 4 positive tokens. Finally, the researchers report, "On average, the bottom earner in each group spent 96 percent more on negative tokens than the top earner and the top earner spent 77 percent more on positive tokens than the bottom earner." In other words, the poor spent a good bit of their meager incomes on reducing the incomes of the rich while the rich kindly reduced their wealth to endow the poor with more resources. Interestingly, the study does not report any gender differences in behavior.

Assuming that these research findings are valid, how did this innate drive toward enforcing income equality come about? It's hard to see how an inborn drive could arise in Pleistocene hunter gatherers such that people spend their scarce resources to reduce other people's resources promotes either individual or group survival. Or is enforcing equality really all that different an activity from punishing non-cooperating cheaters? Perhaps early in human evolution, large differences in income actually correlated with cheating and thus automatically merited punishment. Another puzzle is if humans are instinctively egalitarian, how did early hierarchical civilizations in which the incomes of priests and kings were significantly higher than those of peasants come about at all? Finally, finding that humans have an innate tendency toward enforcing a norm of income equality would explain the persistent attraction of communism, progressive tax rates, the demand for universal government-supplied health care, minimum wage laws and other such destructive modern leveling ideologies and policies.
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Old 04-21-2007, 06:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I can't tell from the article how they derive that the "leveling" drive is not a social construct. I'd like to check the orginal research more, but interesting social phenom either way.

The article is available at http://reason.com/news/show/119760.html

Reason.com rules BTW


EDIT: just read the nature article referenced in the article above (available at http://jhfowler.ucsd.edu/egalitarian_motives.pdf) . Regardless of your politics the fact the people will undercut their own position to "punish" high earner (more so as inequality increases) leads to interesting conclusions about social policy needed to insure stability. A cynic might take the position that policy makers should at a minimum "create" the illusion of income equality to avoid social strife.
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:11 PM   #3 (permalink)

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Interesting read.

The ramifications are not immediately apparent, and I do believe that we have both altruistic and selfish tendencies.

The one thing this does seem to suggest is that human behaviour (altruist or other) is influenced by the rules of the game.
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:23 PM   #4 (permalink)

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finally the voice of reason has spoken! it's proof that nice people are inheritally born wrong

God forbid altruistic people exist; God bless egoist, selfishness and greed!

come on brothers, let's gather together and lambaste those who wish to give out a helping hand.
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I´ve seen reports of this before. In games where the object is to "win", or do as much as possible, many people seem to be willing to forfeit their own chance at winning the game in order to hurt a "cheater", in various games that are spin-off of the prisoner´s dilemna.

It seem that our competitive nature IS tempered by an innate sense of fairness That even when cheating, going back on your word etc is abstract, we dislike it.
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:56 PM   #6 (permalink)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus
finally the voice of reason has spoken! it's proof that nice people are inheritally born wrong

God forbid altruistic people exist; God bless egoist, selfishness and greed!

come on brothers, let's gather together and lambaste those who wish to give out a helping hand.
We "selfish people" don't mind giving out helping hands to the needy. We just don't like other people giving our money away to the needy for us.
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyclaws
We "selfish people" don't mind giving out helping hands to the needy. We just don't like other people giving our money away to the needy for us.
But that kind of begs the question, should the portion of your money that is taken as tax be considered "yours" to begin with?

Not saying I think that, but it´s something worth thinking about.

And yes, taxation can be seen as unfair(in the sense that he same party that decides to take the money is the one that gets it).
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:04 PM   #8 (permalink)

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what it means is that morality exists. whether or not it's implanted by God or part of an evolutionary model, morality is part of human nature and it's not all about being trapped in a corrupt/evil world or that everything is about survival of the fittest and fuck the less fortunate. whether you like it or not, there are good people among us who care for the well being of others and that's something we should be thankful for.
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:10 PM   #9 (permalink)

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But that kind of begs the question, should the portion of your money that is taken as tax be considered "yours" to begin with?

Not saying I think that, but it´s something worth thinking about.

And yes, taxation can be seen as unfair(in the sense that he same party that decides to take the money is the one that gets it).
Some taxes more so than others. I would say the money directly taken out of my paycheck that I earned is mine (FICA, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.) Property tax money I consider mine too. Especially the way we fund our school system in Texas. What sucks is my kids attend private school and I still have to pay a large chunk of taxes to our local school district. The only tax I don't consider to be my money would be Sales tax.
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyclaws
Some taxes more so than others. I would say the money directly taken out of my paycheck that I earned is mine (FICA, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.) Property tax money I consider mine too. Especially the way we fund our school system in Texas. What sucks is my kids attend private school and I still have to pay a large chunk of taxes to our local school district. The only tax I don't consider to be my money would be Sales tax.

So you favour a Consumption tax over a Land tax model(a land tax that only taxes the amount of LAND, not the value of the property you build on it)?
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