[Wonga2]

I wouldnt call Britans dependence on America to launch it's cruise and nuclear missles a loss of soverignity I would call it an attempt by the British government to save money on the defence budget. There is nothing to stop Britan from devoloping it's own missile system

[TheMMAn]

What a fucking joke.

Who forced the UK to buy the weapons the US spent billions developing?

They are free to develop weapons, without contingencies, with their own money.

But, they chose to have the weapons that ensure their safety against most other nations, in exchange for cash and conditions.

What are the conditions for joining the EU? Will they be held to laws and conditions imposed by the EU, even though they may be opposed? Are there not supernatonal bodies that can make binding decisions without consent of the Brits?

Perspective is a bitch

[Marsupial]

Originally Posted by EsercitoBlu

I see that article is from The Guardian so it is rendered as complete Bullshit!

Do you mean that the points raised in the article are not true?

I didn't realise that.

Could you point me in the direction of some info, sources, etc. that refute the article?
I don't want to make the same mistake again and I'd like to see where I went wrong, thanks.

(What about the other article, the one that isn't from the Guardian, is it okay?)

[EsercitoBlu]

Originally Posted by Sauron

Yes. Left behind. We are no longer a power - and what power we do have is fast receding. Without Europe we are nothing.

And it's a pointless argument anyway since we are already committed to Europe. The treaty is nothing radical. It is merely making existing practices fairer and more accountable.

The significance of the UK without Europe is going to reside to that of the level of a country like Denmark - without the benefits.



You do realise we are one of the one heavily indebted nations in the EU. Our healthcare ranks near the bottom and our gulf between rich and poor is large aswell. We aren't the worst; but we certainly aren't near the best. Meanwhile the likes of Germany is running up a massive surplus - while we head for a slowdown.

I expect significant improvements in decision making, accountability and steamlining of EU decisions. I see improvements in security, borders and trade agreements. I see a common market and the emergence of Europe as a setter of standards and leader in all fields.

The Gallileo system (with british built satellites) is coming online that will allow for the independance of Europe when making decisions. The European space programme aswell. Then there's the ability of the EU to fine companies that break agreements and to take on powers like US/China when they unfairly subsidise or support their industry at the expense of ours.

Au contraire.

We benefit by belonging to a stronger collective. The Irish are richer and investing their money in the UK. And the same goes for the other new EU countries. Their prosperity is our investment oppurtunities; their new found wealth is then invested in our products and services. We benefit.

The stability of the eastern fringes also brings security benefits and removes unstable and lawless elements. The immigrants that you so despise are more likely to stay put; and those of us who should seek to work in emerging markets can go and enjoy the boom while our own economy slows.

see the rest of the post.

Common currency
Common trade
guarantee of fundamental rights (HRA '98)
Ease of travel
Stability on the fringes of Europe

People are stupid; and that's exactly why the government won't give us a referendum on this issue.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In other words you havent got a clue!!!


Ease of travel - since when has that been a problem for a brit?
Common currency? - Not going to happen!
Stabilty - Only Germany has been a problem for the UK in the last 100 years
Trade - Since when has that been a problem

Its been proved Eastern Europeans are not benefiting the UK
Irish Investing their money! Our fuckin handouts this minute nation scrounges which on scale ammounts to absolutely fuck all
Do you honestly think the EU will rival the united states space programme?

Have you ever travelled in Europe? Our houses are worth more,we earn on par with the best,Only Germany as a country is richer,with the UK currently 5/6 richest in the World!

Man i bet you are a fuckin student to write absolute shit like this!

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by EsercitoBlu

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In other words you havent got a clue!!!

Ease of travel - since when has that been a problem for a brit?

You haven't really responded in turn.

It looks like a confused 10 year old has realised someone he can't comprehend and isn't intelligent enough to rebuke. Instead fill it with rofls, lols and "you haven't a clue MAYTEY".

Common currency? - Not going to happen!

It will. Just watch over the next ten years or so as the rest of Europe gets drawn into the euro. Then we'll be the odd one out and business will demand we join.

Stabilty - Only Germany has been a problem for the UK in the last 100 years

Where do you think the guns come from. They came from the unstable parts of eastern europe and the balkans.

Ireland was a basketcase and now they are one of the richest.

Germany WAS a problem. Now it's not. Now we have pretty much every European country lining up to JOIN the EU. The EU promotes good governance and stability.

Trade - Since when has that been a problem

Since we have been losing our significance. We as a small island of only 60m people don't have the collective power to stand up to the the corporate giants and subsidised products that come from China and the US.

Do you think they'd listen if we didn't speak as a common market as 460 million people.

They'd tell us where to get off.

Its been proved Eastern Europeans are not benefiting the UK

Depending on what study you listen to. If you read the daily mail and the sun you're probably going to get your daily dose of anti-europe rubbish. And apparently half of them have gone home to enjoy the booming polish economy.

Then again, your whole post reads like a tabloid letters colum.
They be takin' our jurbs.

Irish Investing their money! Our fuckin handouts this minute nation scrounges which on scale ammounts to absolutely fuck all

Can you repeat this in English, please?

It's like you can't accept things have changed significantly in the last 30 years. I know it's hard but the reality is different. That's why i am concerned with the future of our nation; while someone like you just hankers after the past.

Do you honestly think the EU will rival the united states space programme?

Yes.

The EU is going to dwarf the US economically and will simply have a greater pool of resources to put together. The Eurozone (that's without the UK) already is bigger than the economy of the US.

Have you ever travelled in Europe? Our houses are worth more,we earn on par with the best,Only Germany as a country is richer,with the UK currently 5/6 richest in the World!

That's good. Our houses are heavily inflated however.

Man i bet you are a fuckin student to write absolute shit like this!

No

I am someone who see's that our future is with Europe. It's a vision that is shread by the political elite's of pretty much every country in Europe. It's something you're going to have to get used to.

[Piper]

Originally Posted by TheMMAn

What a fucking joke.

Who forced the UK to buy the weapons the US spent billions developing?

They are free to develop weapons, without contingencies, with their own money.

But, they chose to have the weapons that ensure their safety against most other nations, in exchange for cash and conditions.

What are the conditions for joining the EU? Will they be held to laws and conditions imposed by the EU, even though they may be opposed? Are there not supernatonal bodies that can make binding decisions without consent of the Brits?

Perspective is a bitch

Exactly.

This isn't a British sell-out, it is a smart buy-in. If Britain had to do it's own R&D and developement of those weapons and systems, what would it cost Britain. And by the time they did develop it, if ever, it would likely be trailing edge or obsolete technology.

Look how well the EU handled Kosovo/Serbia. Look how well they are handling immigration both legal and illegal. What if some cities in England or France or Sweeden decide they are majority Muslim and want, too, to become indipendent Muslim Sharia city-states? How has the EU handled that reality in Kosovo. How is it going to handle it in other parts of Europe?

The President of Turkey said that it is a "crime against humanity" to have Turks assimilate in Europe. How has the EU handled that direct threat to the future of Europe?

The EU member states are undergoing a demographic collapse. How is the EU going to reverse that? How is it going to manage support systems for an unbalanced older population pyramid?

Russia doesn't want Europe to have defensive missle systems. How is the EU handling that?

The EU bureaucrats seem to come up with all kinds of plans for erasing national identies of member states, but is UTTERLY INCOMPETENT AND UNWILLING to address the actual existential threats to Europe itself.

All it can seem to do is try to keep its own bureaucracy in place and its agenda, blind to the real existential threats it needs to contend with. The citizens of the countries themselves see the threats, and the impotence of the EU, and the EU's totalitarian and detrimental leanings. Hence, the citizens want to vote to determine their future but the EU wants to deprive them of referenda.

The lack of consent of the governed is what prompted the American Revolution. The lack of the consent of the governed in Europe will cause a rejection or revolution against the EU bureaucracy.

[chokeyou]

So the Brits lost their sovereignty because they bought weapons from the US on the condition they could only use them with our permission? That's called a contract you fucking dipshit.

[Ultrashogun]

Originally Posted by chokeyou

So the Brits lost their sovereignty because they bought weapons from the US on the condition they could only use them with our permission? That's called a contract you fucking dipshit.

What else is the EU other than a contract? Nobody forced the Brits to join.

[Marsupial]

Originally Posted by Piper

Exactly.

This isn't a British sell-out, it is a smart buy-in. If Britain had to do it's own R&D and developement of those weapons and systems, what would it cost Britain. And by the time they did develop it, if ever, it would likely be trailing edge or obsolete technology.

There are still massive costs involved for Britain. The British Parliament recently took the decision to renew the Trident nuclear deterrent at a cost of approx. $45 billion dollars.
It's not like the U.S. does that shit for them.

Originally Posted by Piper

All it can seem to do is try to keep its own bureaucracy in place and its agenda, blind to the real existential threats it needs to contend with. The citizens of the countries themselves see the threats, and the impotence of the EU, and the EU's totalitarian and detrimental leanings. Hence, the citizens want to vote to determine their future but the EU wants to deprive them of referenda.

You've said before that the EU is heading towards a kind of totalitarian superstate, one that is being created by former Soviet bureaucrats and you also routinely state that the Europe is threatened by an impending Islamist takeover.

Now, it surely can't be both.
An Orwellian Big Brother, pan-European government would not tolerate or allow a grassroots theocratic movement of any kind.

So which of these projected outcomes do you really believe in and which can you admit was a mistake?

Originally Posted by chokeyou

So the Brits lost their sovereignty because they bought weapons from the US on the condition they could only use them with our permission? That's called a contract you fucking dipshit.

A unilateral contract that cedes a great deal of sovereignty to the U.S.
You cock-toothed wankstick.

[WrestlingNerd]

Seems like some dumb mistakes on Britian's part.