[HeadBanger]

The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a U.S. Navy intelligence ship, USS Liberty, in international waters about 12.5 nautical miles (23 km) from the coast of the Sinai Peninsula, north of El Arish, by Israeli fighter planes and torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War (a conflict between Israel and the Arab states of Egypt, Jordan and Syria). The attack, which killed 34 U.S. servicemen and wounded at least 173, was the second deadliest against a U.S. Naval vessel since the end of World War II, surpassed only by the Iraqi Exocet missile attack on the USS Stark on May 17, 1987, and marked the single greatest loss of life by the U.S. intelligence community.

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Ezra Pound]

Originally Posted by The Gem

Israel and Canada are our two biggest allies for the future. Everyone just needs to accept this and move on.

I dunno about the foothold thing if we were going to take over the entire region and use that as a staging ground, ok I could see that. But what does having them there and supporting them no matter what help us get the oil? Doesn't it hurt our attempts to get the oil because of the dispute over what the two opposing faiths consider 'holy land' ? If you mean it's a foothold in the sense of threat of targetted assassinations I could buy that and it's not a bad argument to make. But last time I check we gas is up to 4 bux a gallon, so that plans not working. I mean we are buying it from Opec right? We made a deal and pay a certain price. Are you saying they are keeping the price LOWER by their presence or have been? I'm just asking if that's your argument.

Now onto the other issue which is much more grim.

Source of Americans killed by Israel ok Ill softball this one, ill just pull those ones off the top of my head. Ill seperate those on the list of sources by incident fair enough?
1. Rachel Corrie - 19 year old American protestor 2003 Rachel Corrie Memorial Website
2. 34 United States Navy Men killed 174 injured, many seriously on the USS Liberty. 1967 USS Liberty Memorial
That's plenty in my book. Side note they did take out 91 ppl in the King David Hotel bombing, mostly Brits 15 were israeli jews but that incident doesn't count you did ask for specifically Americans.

These are two cases I am familiar with, I did come across some others recently, but let's just stick with these since I am very familiar with them.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by Ezra Pound

I dunno about the foothold thing if we were going to take over the entire region and use that as a staging ground, ok I could see that. But what does having them there and supporting them no matter what help us get the oil? Doesn't it hurt our attempts to get the oil because of the dispute over what the two opposing faiths consider 'holy land' ? If you mean it's a foothold in the sense of threat of targetted assassinations I could buy that and it's not a bad argument to make. But last time I check we gas is up to 4 bux a gallon, so that plans not working. I mean we are buying it from Opec right? We made a deal and pay a certain price. Are you saying they are keeping the price LOWER by their presence or have been? I'm just asking if that's your argument.

Now onto the other issue which is much more grim.

Source of Americans killed by Israel ok Ill softball this one, ill just pull those ones off the top of my head. Ill seperate those on the list of sources by incident fair enough?
1. Rachel Corrie - 19 year old American protestor 2003 Rachel Corrie Memorial Website
2. 34 United States Navy Men killed 174 injured, many seriously on the USS Liberty. 1967 USS Liberty Memorial
That's plenty in my book. Side note they did take out 91 ppl in the King David Hotel bombing, mostly Brits 15 were israeli jews but that incident doesn't count you did ask for specifically Americans.

These are two cases I am familiar with, I did come across some others recently, but let's just stick with these since I am very familiar with them.

if we had no military there we would be getting royally screwed like all of Europe is getting, so yes our military presence is helping us.

[Ezra Pound]

Originally Posted by RuSSiaNThuG

you had no argument

this thread had nothing to do with aipac, it just mentioned "lobby" and you were like a dog on a bone


you regurgitate shit constantly, you ahve been shown to be wrong countless times


enough is enough

no point, only your nazi troll dolls agree with your posts anyway, as far as i'm concerned you;re all one in the same

I hope you aren't upset. If you say Lobby in America, most people DO think AIPAC if they know anything about Washington. Are you just never going to answer a direct question ever again now? You've turned extremely nasty lately. I had more questions about Russia and wanted your take on it.

[Ezra Pound]

Originally Posted by The Gem

if we had no military there we would be getting royally screwed like all of Europe is getting, so yes our military presence is helping us.

Ok but can you elaborate? Israel is there as a military presence representing us. So I guess you're saying threat of force. Can you elaborate though?

[Salmonella]

Originally Posted by RuSSiaNThuG

give it a rest quazimodo..

50k lobbyists and you are son hung up on aipac

AIPAC has a strong influence on our government. I am not making an anti-Israel statement, that is just fact.

I say just get rid of lobbyists completely. There are some lobbyists out there working for good causes, but the vast majority are working for special corporate interests that have no business trying to influence the people we elected. Let the people speak for themselves.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by Ezra Pound

Ok but can you elaborate? Israel is there as a military presence representing us. So I guess you're saying threat of force. Can you elaborate though?

by ourself in the region we are vulnerable because we only have one large base which is in SA. With Israel however we have a nuclear power sitting right near us in case things ever get hectic. Basically we had been reaping the benefits of using Israel as our Queen in Chess in case things ever go to hell in that region. By being one of the few allies to Israel we also have the ability to serve as peace-broker between Israel and other middle eastern powers. With our perceived role as peace-broker in the middle east, also comes the realization and fear that those nations have that any day we could take the shackles off of Israel and let them enact their Zionists beliefs and claim that entire region.

Basically we are involved in a high stakes game of Russian Roulette where it is extremely unsure if the juice (oil) is worth the squeeze (fucking over an entire region, and picking sides in a conflict where we should probably stay neutral).


Plus there is always the fact that it is kind of our fault Israel exists in the first place. Things would be much more just if no man, country, nation, or entity owned Jerusalem. Too many religions and nations lay claim to it. It should be owned by the UN and should be a de-militarized zone similar to the Vatican. No weapons should be allowed in the city. We should have just given the Jews Germany, or a part of Russia (Russia is so big they would have never noticed).

[GOD_OF_MUAYTHAI]

Originally Posted by The Gem

by ourself in the region we are vulnerable because we only have one large base which is in SA. With Israel however we have a nuclear power sitting right near us in case things ever get hectic. Basically we had been reaping the benefits of using Israel as our Queen in Chess in case things ever go to hell in that region. By being one of the few allies to Israel we also have the ability to serve as peace-broker between Israel and other middle eastern powers. With our perceived role as peace-broker in the middle east, also comes the realization and fear that those nations have that any day we could take the shackles off of Israel and let them enact their Zionists beliefs and claim that entire region.

Basically we are involved in a high stakes game of Russian Roulette where it is extremely unsure if the juice (oil) is worth the squeeze (fucking over an entire region, and picking sides in a conflict where we should probably stay neutral).


Plus there is always the fact that it is kind of our fault Israel exists in the first place. Things would be much more just if no man, country, nation, or entity owned Jerusalem. Too many religions and nations lay claim to it. It should be owned by the UN and should be a de-militarized zone similar to the Vatican. No weapons should be allowed in the city. We should have just given the Jews Germany, or a part of Russia (Russia is so big they would have never noticed).

not only does israel have nuclear weapons, they have chemical and biological weapons too and then you wonder why syria and iran want wmds ? well from there point of view to protect themselves from israel and enact a policy of mutually assured destruction, so israel having nuclear weapons is even worse for israel and the rest of the world.can you imagine how the middle east is going to react if israel ever uses those weapons ? chaos beyond are wildest dreams and too be honest there would be nothing we can do about it. I agree with your statement on jersusalem, have it co-op or under international rule/both sides controlling it and that would be a great step forward.

[Ezra Pound]

Originally Posted by The Gem

by ourself in the region we are vulnerable because we only have one large base which is in SA. With Israel however we have a nuclear power sitting right near us in case things ever get hectic. Basically we had been reaping the benefits of using Israel as our Queen in Chess in case things ever go to hell in that region. By being one of the few allies to Israel we also have the ability to serve as peace-broker between Israel and other middle eastern powers. With our perceived role as peace-broker in the middle east, also comes the realization and fear that those nations have that any day we could take the shackles off of Israel and let them enact their Zionists beliefs and claim that entire region.

Basically we are involved in a high stakes game of Russian Roulette where it is extremely unsure if the juice (oil) is worth the squeeze (fucking over an entire region, and picking sides in a conflict where we should probably stay neutral).


Plus there is always the fact that it is kind of our fault Israel exists in the first place. Things would be much more just if no man, country, nation, or entity owned Jerusalem. Too many religions and nations lay claim to it. It should be owned by the UN and should be a de-militarized zone similar to the Vatican. No weapons should be allowed in the city. We should have just given the Jews Germany, or a part of Russia (Russia is so big they would have never noticed).

Very good post. It's also Britain's fault (Balfour) and the Sultan for being a douche. But yeah we've kept it going. I think you're right about the chickens coming home at some point. Too many enemies, too little gain. Time for other options.

As you describe Jerusalem, that's exactly what I want a place everyone can practice their faith freely, but theres no way the peace would be kept. As you said enaction of certain beliefs I just wish the moderates had a louder voice in that camp. Ive suggested the part of Germany thing before to a Zionist friend and he got all out of shape, as many have said why punish the ME for what happened in EU. Plus the truth is, the Zionists never would of accepted anything other then THAT piece of land. Russia is big and I don't see that being a problem, then again Im not Russian. Good post, you know the history, you outline the situation well.

[RuSSiaNThuG]

Originally Posted by Ezra Pound

I hope you aren't upset. If you say Lobby in America, most people DO think AIPAC if they know anything about Washington. Are you just never going to answer a direct question ever again now? You've turned extremely nasty lately. I had more questions about Russia and wanted your take on it.

you have to give this israel shit a rest dude, don't you realise how brain fucked you are if someone says lobby and you str8 away think AIPAC

there are way more WORSE lobby's out there....


you want to talk abot ocntrol over the US govt? why not try the weapons manufacturers lobby for example, they pull way more strings than AIPAC



and lol @ your regurgitation of the king david hotel from almost a century ago, the cole and that hippy bitch getting bulldozed what does THAT have to do with lobbies? seriously