The Kalash Tribe of Pakistan

[Sohei]

Excellent posts Snake-eyes thanks for edifying all of us.

Wasnt Mahayana Buddhism supposed to be influenced by Greek Stoicism and wasn't it prevalent in northwestern Indian city-states where Greek influence was strongest? Ive seen Japanese depictions of Buddha that were supposedly influenced by Greek art and Greek gods

Also did yo study the reconstruction of PIE language? how is that coming along?

[adren@line]

The majority of Greek influence in Indian culture was in art, specifically sculpture. One could say that there is also a significant genetic impact in areas of north India. As far as philosophy goes, the Greek influence was minimal, and it is more likely that the Indians influenced the Greeks.

[Zankou]

Originally Posted by adren@line

Aryan Invasion Theory is crap and has been replaced by the Aryan Migration Theory. There is no 50/50 split in regards to AIT. Its now either AMT or the OOI theory (out-of-India) meaning the Aryans originated in India and traveled north to Iran.


I stated its something "I read". Its not something I believe. As far as the PIE homeland being in India, its not just Indian nationalists. There are some white professors who believe in it too.

Oh dear Lord, did you just mention the "out of India" theory? You realize this isn't a Hindutva board, right?

[Zankou]

Originally Posted by adren@line

The majority of Greek influence in Indian culture was in art, specifically sculpture. One could say that there is also a significant genetic impact in areas of north India. As far as philosophy goes, the Greek influence was minimal, and it is more likely that the Indians influenced the Greeks.

This is a really interesting subject, but there is no good evidence one way or the other. I myself suspect that there was a continuum of dialogue that spread rather indirectly between both cultures, towards the Greeks through a rather indirect fashion early on (probably communicated through various Eastern empires like Persia), and then to the Indians in rather direct fashion following the Hellenic incursions. But that's all surmise, there isn't any good textual support for it either way as far as I can tell.

Sculptures are fascinating, if you look at the early Buddhist sculptures in Gandhara, it's almost entirely Hellenic in origin, looking like Greek sculpture. It then became more and more formal and "religious," static in tone, over time. A shame!!!

[Zankou]

Originally Posted by SnakeEyes

No comment. But if I could choose I'd be some hemp smoking Scythian raiding and pillaging neighboring towns on my awesome horse with my super-rad axe and bows, giving up sacrifices to my war gods and getting shit faced at giant Steppe barbecues with blood all over my shirt stinking of sheepskins and mead. Whatever "-ist" or "-ism" that is, that's what I'd want. Civilization is for queers.

Dude, you gotsta turn to the REAL Vedic religion. The Indra-worshiping, Soma-sucking, city-raiding, ritual sacrificing, cow chompin' religion of the Aryans. Not the Shiva lickin', ahimsa lovin', vegetarian lameness that Indian religion later degenerated into.

If I can locate one single textual point where it all went wrong -- From the Gathas of Zarathustra, when Gaush Urva, the divine cow, laments that there is evil in this world, and that it must be expunged by the good. Everything went to hell shortly thereafter.

[redjako]

Originally Posted by Zankou

Dude, you gotsta turn to the REAL Vedic religion. The Indra-worshiping, Soma-sucking, city-raiding, ritual sacrificing, cow chompin' religion of the Aryans. Not the Shiva lickin', ahimsa lovin', vegetarian lameness that Indian religion later degenerated into.

Runes ftw.

Only practicer's I've found are aryan gangs



No Vedics pray on their knee's...at least, they are very proud of such.

New thread on this examination? I am happy I checked back with this thread.

[adren@line]

Originally Posted by Zankou

Oh dear Lord, did you just mention the "out of India" theory? You realize this isn't a Hindutva board, right?

lol. Yeah I know, but it is still one of the "main" theories, regardless of who believes in it.

As far as early Indo-European religion and practices, I personally find them primitive and violent. I dont see anything romantic in the warrior culture and the drinking rituals (such as soma/homa). The early Indo-Europeans were largely a simplistic and primitive bunch.

Ofcourse, I am still fascinated by such traditions and cultures, but I dont see it as anything to be proud of. The real achievements came later on after they refined their culture towards a more philosophical and rationalistic slant (Indian and Greek philosophy/civilization comes to mind here, as does Persian administration and imperialism).

[Sohei]

Originally Posted by SnakeEyes

No comment. But if I could choose I'd be some hemp smoking Scythian raiding and pillaging neighboring towns on my awesome horse with my super-rad axe and bows, giving up sacrifices to my war gods and getting shit faced at giant Steppe barbecues with blood all over my shirt stinking of sheepskins and mead. Whatever "-ist" or "-ism" that is, that's what I'd want. Civilization is for queers.

Any kind of barbarian> "civilized" person

How many people would choose to be a "civilized" Roman, Greek, Persian, or Chinese over a Scythina or Asiatic steppe barbarian or a Germanic or Celtic forest barbarian? I think most would choose to be the latter.

[SnakeEyes]

Originally Posted by Zankou

Dude, you gotsta turn to the REAL Vedic religion. The Indra-worshiping, Soma-sucking, city-raiding, ritual sacrificing, cow chompin' religion of the Aryans. Not the Shiva lickin', ahimsa lovin', vegetarian lameness that Indian religion later degenerated into.

If I can locate one single textual point where it all went wrong -- From the Gathas of Zarathustra, when Gaush Urva, the divine cow, laments that there is evil in this world, and that it must be expunged by the good. Everything went to hell shortly thereafter.

Don't rag on Siva, dude. McEviley proposed that he literally came out of a weird hodge-podge of IE gods floating around at the time (including Poseidon, from where the original Trident might have arisen, and Hercules, from where McEviley believes the club and lionskin might have popped up). I'm kinda down with that theory, because the humanoid dread locked Siva with his all his awesome weapons (aside from the trident and club we have the axe, spear and bow, typical arsenal of a Saka nomad) riding on his white bull smoking hemp and hanging out in grave yards eating out of a human skull is strange even for that period of Hinduism, with all the Advaita Vedanta and Ajivika shit going down (which led to Jainism and Buddhism a little later). It seems to some of us, myself included, that Siva is a Bactrian/Gandharan anomaly with a basis in everything under the sun, including Scythian and Indian shamanism (on the Indian side I'm talking fringe weirdos like the Kesins), Indian asceticism and even Greek mythology. He's got antecedents in Vedic religion but they don't begin to account for the strangeness they come up with in the NorthWest. Plus, that particular cult that sort of popularized the Siva we know today (Pasupatis, as opposed to the linga-type Siva they were fond of in the South) was the group McEviley identifies with the Cynics, at least the Scythian antecedents of the Greek school. Both groups rocked heckling and calling bullshit on everything as a spiritual path. That's some pretty kickass shit.

[SnakeEyes]

Originally Posted by Sohei

Excellent posts Snake-eyes thanks for edifying all of us.

Wasnt Mahayana Buddhism supposed to be influenced by Greek Stoicism and wasn't it prevalent in northwestern Indian city-states where Greek influence was strongest? Ive seen Japanese depictions of Buddha that were supposedly influenced by Greek art and Greek gods

Also did yo study the reconstruction of PIE language? how is that coming along?

I can't remember if the Stoic/Mahayana thing was mentioned in the Mceviley book, it might have been because it sounds familiar. Anyways its not something I'mespecially familiar with but something I'd definitely like to hear about. You're bang on about the Greek influence in depictions of the Buddha, though; some of the first statues have him rocking slightly curly hair and even wearing a Greek style toga.

Finally, yes, I studied PIE reconstruction. I did Sanskrit first, tried Avestan and Hittite, a little Homer in the linguistics program (not classics) and worked extensively for two years on Indo-European and PIE as an undergraduate. I was super lucky to find the program that I did in Canada, actually.