[ig1983]

Originally Posted by BadassHo

that and we were the only country in the world that justified isreals existence in 1947-48.

You forgot: Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussian SSR, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, South Africa, Ukrainian SSR, United States of America, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Uruguay, Venezuela.

[DaRuckus337]

This is just a political tit-for-tat. Carter will not be in jeopardy at any point while on Israeli soil. Don't read into it too much.

[Kippy Winstead]

Originally Posted by xenophobic

"Jimmy Carter has been snubbed by Israeli leaders and criticised by the US State Department after it was announced that he would meet with Hamas President Khalid Mashaal in Syria during a visit to the Middle East this week."
If this is still on [There has been a lot of press about it] I could see why. Let Carter get his security from Hamas.

god forbid he want to have peace talks with the dem elected government...

what a fool...

[Zankou]

Originally Posted by DaRuckus337

This is just a political tit-for-tat. Carter will not be in jeopardy at any point while on Israeli soil. Don't read into it too much.

No doubt it's completely safe and Israel will do its job, but you have to question what kind of "ally" pulls this kind of thing in order to punish public dissent from its political views. Can you imagine the US doing this to, say, Tony Blair? We wouldn't even do it to frickin' Putin. But Israel gets away with behaving like an unreliable 6 year old here. If you don't toe the line of Israeli policy, be prepared to be insulted, even if you are the former president of Israel's greatest -- arguably only -- ally.

One wonders why this sort of thing was done, since it largely helps to prove Carter's point regarding Israeli intransigence and hostility towards dissent. My guess is that it placates some Israeli domestic faction, though I don't know enough about Israeli politics to say.

[GOD_OF_MUAYTHAI]

well thats how israel deals with politicians that disagree with them...instead of having a discussion they give the cold shoulder because israel is never wrong

[xenophobic]

Originally Posted by Kippy Winstead

god forbid he want to have peace talks with the dem elected government...

what a fool...

I guess it escaped your notice Genius but President Carter is going in the capacity of a United States private citizen he isn't authorized to have "Peace talks" with anyone outside that role.

[RemoWilliams]

Originally Posted by dreadedothrside

Maybe it's because of that book he wrote.

Dont try to explain accountability to democrats. It's a concept they can't ever grasp.

[Thaiboxer18]

Originally Posted by Zankou

Well, arguably by "existence" he meant "current existence," rather than "founding." You can make a pretty viable case that if not for US support from the mid 1960s onward, Israel would've been taken out.

Really? Based on what? The Arabs got more support from the Russians than the Israelis got from us in 1967, and 1973 wasn't exactly America saving Israel either. In fact, Kissinger had Israel stop when they had the Egyptian army trapped and could have slaughtered them.

Israel didn't get nukes from us either, and they didn't get help from us when they blew up the Iraqi nuclear facility.

I fail to see of any way in which we have prevented the destruction of Israel. If anything, our support of Israel has prevented the destruction of the Arabs, because if the Arabs thought the balance of power were more in their favor, they would have attacked again, and Israel would have nuked them.

[Kippy Winstead]

Originally Posted by ig1983

You forgot: Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussian SSR, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, South Africa, Ukrainian SSR, United States of America, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Uruguay, Venezuela.

ig didn't we not even really support israel when they started in 48...

[Zankou]

Originally Posted by Thaiboxer18

Really? Based on what? The Arabs got more support from the Russians than the Israelis got from us in 1967, and 1973 wasn't exactly America saving Israel either. In fact, Kissinger had Israel stop when they had the Egyptian army trapped and could have slaughtered them.

Israel didn't get nukes from us either, and they didn't get help from us when they blew up the Iraqi nuclear facility.

I fail to see of any way in which we have prevented the destruction of Israel. If anything, our support of Israel has prevented the destruction of the Arabs, because if the Arabs thought the balance of power were more in their favor, they would have attacked again, and Israel would have nuked them.

Well shoot, then all this talk about Israel struggling against overwhelming odds and barely surviving, needing US help, were all lies? Fvck, we got ripped off *really* badly then, worse than I'd thought.

You are correct that the French, not the Americans, gave Israel nukes. But that's because France, not America, was Israel's chief ally until about the mid 1960s, when America took over.

It probably helped Israel in blowing up the Iraqi facility that they used F-15s and F-16s to do it, top-rate technology largely gifted to them by US taxpayers (and which, at that time, we would sell to almost nobody else). In an alternate timeline, would Israel have been perfectly fine without US support, and done it all on their own? Possibly, possibly not. Given that it's so unnecessary, I certainly wish they hadn't received more foreign aid than any other nation on Earth over the past 40 years, whilst being the most ungrateful nation on Earth -- and close to the least reliable as an ally.