i wrote this about iraq in july 05...

[Kippy Winstead]

what i want to point out is the part about iraq and the connections of iraqi shiite leaders to iran... some of you brilliant bush supporters are just now... over a year later coming to the realization that democracy in a region that hates the west is NOT in our interests... and iraq under shiite rule is SERIOUSLY not in our interests...



Friday, July 08, 2005


i saw this on the bulletin board posted by a friend...



This blog is honour of all the people that died in the terrosist attacks on 7th of July 2005
Show your respect by signing this bulletin and lets bring these terrorist fucks down

1. Mitch
2. Nix
3. Matt Lunn
4. Andy Mardell
5. Lizzi Noice
6. Nick Lunn
7.Sarah Bond <3. Respect.
8.* Kat *
9. Tom Jowett
10.faye elizabeth x
11-jerriii xo
12. Liz
13.em
14. Nora ♥
15. Laura
16. Tyler
17. lauren
18.Lendz
19. Larry- ppl better sign this I'll be more pissed then ever...
20. Donna
21. Emma (from London)
22. Aimee
23. Dustin
24. <3~Lauren~<3
25.Julie
26. Brianna
27. Sammie
28. Alyssa
29.Justin
30. Helen
31. Ian
32.Jessica Rabbit


and you know when i saw this i really felt for the familes of those who had died in london and there was a sincere sense of anger in my heart towards those who committed this crime... and revenge was of course on my mind... because lets face it... i'm far from a pacifist...

but this question sort presented itself to me... more of a realization really... that we in the west perhaps view the lives of americans and europeans far differently then we view the lives of arabs (keeping in mind of course that many in the middle east are not arab... i'm going to use the term to save time here)...

i mean 50 british civilians died yesterday... and we are up in arms calling to "bring these terrorist fucks down"... but when 50 palestinian civilians die due to our unilateral support of israel and their 37 year military occupation of palestinian lands we don't even discuss it... its a non-issue... we stand here and watch as the israelis demolish 2,500 homes in rafah because they interfere with the construction of their "newest" borders (the apartied wall currently under construction)... and again... to us... a non-issue...

we sit here at home angry with the newly democratially elected iranian president because he's accused of taking part in the hostage crisis in 1979... forgetting it was the united states who put the brutal shah (a dictator under american control) into power in iran in the 50's... overthrowing their democratically elected government... the shah killed tens of thousands of civilians to serve the interests of american energy corporations... we are speaking of kidnapping... torture... rape... murder... mass murder... you name it... and we as americans forget (and are seldom reminded by our orwellian media) that the reason for the hostage taking was because the shah was actually in america at the time of the islamic revolution... and the iranians demanded we return this dictator to iran to stand trial for war crimes (the irony that sees us defend the shah while saddam sits in a jail cell awaiting trial is nothing short of staggering)...

we look on with glass eyes as 500,000 iraqi civilians (most of them children) die during sanctions and we view it as the cost of doing business... further we blame saddam and the un for these deaths because the "oil for food" program didn't work as well as it should... never taking into account that even the money the administration claims was stolen wasn't enough to make even a slight difference in the outcome when speaking of lives... we don't even speak about the iran/iraq war or the iran/contra affair where 1 million iraqis and iranians died during their war in the 1980's while we sold wmd to both sides (our cia funded the rebel contras in nicaragua with the money made from iranian weapons sales... the contras were attempting to overthrow the democratically elected government because they were considering nationalizing some of the industries... of course some of these indusrties were owned by american corporations)... 1 million arabs die in this war... 1 million... while we play both sides... and now... today... condemn both sides...

today in iraq we have thus far seen and estimated 100,000 civilian deaths... but we sit here at home secure with the knowledge that we use "smart" bombs to keep civilian casualties to a minimum... we cheer ourselves on for bringing freedom to iraq... for bringing democracy to iraq (which wasn't the reason for invasion in the first place)... all the while democracy means handing the country over to grand ayatolla al sistani (it was sistani and not bush who demanded elections in january because he knew that with 60% of the iraqis... the shia... voting for his party... he'd control the country)... a shia islamic cleric who has extremely close ties to iran (he was born there after all)... and while the american administration would attempt to convince the world he is a moderate... the fact remains that when he dies the most influential shai cleric in iraq will most likely be muqtada al sadr... an islamic fundamentalist who already has american blood on his hands... so in the end... we will have lost thousands of american lives... and hundreds of thousands of iraqi lives... in an effort... to turn iraq... into iran... a less then monumental outcome to say the least since the oppression of the average iraqi at that point will start all over again...

so with all of this in mind i'm forced to consider... with the absolute mess we the west have made out of the middle east (our leaders for their corporate influenced policies and us for electing them)... from ww2 on... are we the victims we are told we are... are we the innocent... or to borrow a line from malcolm x are these "chickens coming home to roost"... i'm forced to consider what patton (a man known for his blunt method of reasoning to say the least) said during ww2... which is to win a war you must do 1 of 2 things... kill 80% of the population... or find out why the enemy fights.. and take those reasons away from them... and looking at the middle east and the reasons they fight the only way to take the reasons away is to change western policies towards that region... and of course so much of this pertains to the natural resources in the middle east...

again i'm sure some who read this will be angry with my views... and i'm not a liberal... i'm a republican and have been since i was 18... but i see the perversion of american ethics... and even to a degree the perversion of chritianity... the use of our religion to convince us to turn a blind eye to the methods of our politicians because they share the same faith in god as we do... but to borrow from dr. cornel west these politicians use the bible for power power power... which stems from greed greed greed... and that's not what the bible is about... its about justice justice justice and love love love...

so you know with this considered... i wont add my name to this list... because the idea of "lets bring these terrorist fucks down" goes against the truth... and the reality we see from our history with the middle east in the last half century... and i for one... refuse to turn a blind eye... and i don't know when ignorance became the ideal form of patriotism... but out of respect for those who fought and died to give us the country we have... i'll not be a pawn in this game of deception... i hope some of you will join me in deciding the same...

[B. Goetz 7]

I don't understand why people insist on making long posts without using capital letters.

I read about half of it, and you seem to have some good thoughts.

[Kippy Winstead]

Originally Posted by B. Goetz 7

I don't understand why people insist on making long posts without using capital letters.

I read about half of it, and you seem to have some good thoughts.

because capitol letters are part of the zionist scam... don't buy into them... its all meant to allow the zionists to rob us for our wealth...

[B. Goetz 7]

Okay, I finished reading it.

I wonder how long the American public can be put off with the "they hate our freedom" misdirection. Think there will ever be a time when the American public demands change in terms of how the US relates to the ME?

I predict more of the same.

[Kippy Winstead]

after 9-11 the american people woke up to a degree... as we learn more and more about why they hate us the people will demand changes in their government's policies...

and an end to the support of the zionists... once and for all...

[B. Goetz 7]

Originally Posted by Kippy Winstead

after 9-11 the american people woke up to a degree... as we learn more and more about why they hate us the people will demand changes in their government's policies...

and an end to the support of the zionists... once and for all...

You're more optimistic than me. I don't think people will ever take an interest.

On a separate note: would you like to see the Iranians get the bomb, so they can reclaim their oil industry? Or was that accomplished during the Islamic Revolution?

[GermanBJJ]

Of course Americans value American lives (and the lives of our Western allies) more than we value the lives of those that live in non-allied Arab nations.

[zinzam]

also remember that Iran is just a country trying to establish itself. its only 27 years old in its independent state. losing Iraq now make it x2 the size. the war here was a political decision that diplomats who know the history and see the long term consequences of policies, argued against. that includes Israel, other local countries. better the devil you know. I know this, cause I am a diplomat and was there during these discussions. but the political will, along with military horniness, was too strong.

[Kippy Winstead]

Originally Posted by B. Goetz 7

You're more optimistic than me. I don't think people will ever take an interest.

On a separate note: would you like to see the Iranians get the bomb, so they can reclaim their oil industry? Or was that accomplished during the Islamic Revolution?

they got their oil industry back in the is rev... but to keep it... to keep the west from invading to "free" them... they will need security... and as the lesson of nk shows... the only way to do that is with a nuke...

[Kippy Winstead]

Originally Posted by GermanBJJ

Of course Americans value American lives (and the lives of our Western allies) more than we value the lives of those that live in non-allied Arab nations.

i just think it goes way beyond that... i believe americans really don't give 2 fucks about the lives of muslims...