[Hog-train]

If there are any Israeli jews on Sherdog... or anyone that has family living in Israel. Also anybody who follows the day to day media coverage WITHIN Isreali media. Can you guys answer this question?

Within the Isreali Jewish community, how much opposition is there to Jewish settlements in the West Bank/Gaza Strip/Palestine? Is the country divided like the US is on Iraq? Or is Israeli foreign policy supported by the majority? I would guess that most of the Arabs living in Israel are against most of the actions but how about the Jewish population? Also, how does the media in the country portray the governments actions (is there a lot of opposition?)


This is an honest question asked out of genuine curiosity. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[Alon]

I'm an odd case (born in Israel but I grew up in Australia). To begin with, I'll give you the local Jewish opinion:
-They want a Palestinian self run state, although they believe that this will take time since the situation is chaotic at best, would probably degenerate into civil war, or at the very least result in mass attacks into Israel if it were done immediately.
-The don't feel anything against the Palestinians, although they believe that the Palestinian opinion goes beyond dislike for Israeli policy and into anti-Jewish feeling.
-No Jews I know like the settlers, although in the same way as the above point, they're hesitant about immediately retreating, particularily in Jerusalem.

Jews in Israel, I find are very divided. The only ones I met who hated Palestinians were some douchebags I trained with (ironically, all semi-recent Russian immigrants, these were the same sort of idiots you see anywhere). The general level of racism would be equivalent to what I saw of anti-black feeling in NY city & state, bad but not as bad as many would think. Also Israeli tv seemed pretty good, there was a wide range of opinions regarding all issues.

As for the recent war in Lebanon, the Israelis I know all beleived that this was a war in which they were seriously fighting for the safety of their country and so forth (unlike the Iraq war, where people didn't seem to actually believe Iraq could attack the US). They were also disappointed with the way in which actions were carried out, however there is generally a reason for things, stories of Hizb hiding with civilians etc were common and so this makes things seem quite different to here, where it really wasn't known.

[Hog-train]

Thanx for the quick reply.

[ig1983]

Originally Posted by Hog-train

If there are any Israeli jews on Sherdog... or anyone that has family living in Israel. Also anybody who follows the day to day media coverage WITHIN Isreali media. Can you guys answer this question?

Within the Isreali Jewish community, how much opposition is there to Jewish settlements in the West Bank/Gaza Strip/Palestine? Is the country divided like the US is on Iraq? Or is Israeli foreign policy supported by the majority? I would guess that most of the Arabs living in Israel are against most of the actions but how about the Jewish population? Also, how does the media in the country portray the governments actions (is there a lot of opposition?)


This is an honest question asked out of genuine curiosity. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

"Within the Isreali Jewish community, how much opposition is there to Jewish settlements in the West Bank/Gaza Strip/Palestine?"

I would say its about 50-50. Though it varies depending on the situation. War generally causes more support of settlements than peace time.

"Is the country divided like the US is on Iraq?"

Generally the Israeli public is more divided than the US. The israeli parliament has about 10 active parties as opposed to the 2 party system. In this war, there was generally high support for Israel to do something, but great disappointment with the results. I believe now there is less than 30% happy with the results.

" Or is Israeli foreign policy supported by the majority?"

There are about 10 parties who have different policies from the next. There is the israeli joke that with 2 jews in a room there will be 3 opinions, and this is exemplified in the israeli parliament system.

"I would guess that most of the Arabs living in Israel are against most of the actions but how about the Jewish population?"

It came out just now that contrary to popular jewish opinion, 82% of israeli arabs were anti nasirallah. With the policy in the territories muslim arabs generally oppose the policy,and druze tend to support. the jewish sector varies widely.

" Also, how does the media in the country portray the governments actions (is there a lot of opposition?)"

Haaretz tends to be highly critical of the G.

[ig1983]

Originally Posted by Alon

Jews in Israel, I find are very divided. The only ones I met who hated Palestinians were some douchebags I trained with (ironically, all semi-recent Russian immigrants, these were the same sort of idiots you see anywhere).
.

Ironically, these russian immigrants oft hate israeli jews and culture as well.A friend once met a neo nazi russian in the army that was lookiing to use the army to get at arabs. Though they quickly get discharged.

[Kippy Winstead]

Originally Posted by ig1983

Ironically, these russian immigrants oft hate israeli jews and culture as well.A friend once met a neo nazi russian in the army that was lookiing to use the army to get at arabs. Though they quickly get discharged.

dude i worked with a russian jew who had a VERY low opinion of israelis... she all jews do but that russians dislike them more... she added of course that russian jews are the best... followed by american jews... then some others i forgot but she said the worst were israelis...

now does this sort of issue come up over there... where its like i'm a russian jew and youre a german jew and so forth??? ethnic enclaves etc...

[wellrounded]

Russian Jews are closer to russians than Jews, since the USSR heavily discrimnated against them, and they tried to blend in. They aren't religious (most of them) and the reason they are in Israel was because the Soviet Union alowed Jews to go to Israel, and these russian jews wanted a better life.

[ig1983]

Originally Posted by Kippy Winstead

dude i worked with a russian jew who had a VERY low opinion of israelis... she all jews do but that russians dislike them more... she added of course that russian jews are the best... followed by american jews... then some others i forgot but she said the worst were israelis...

now does this sort of issue come up over there... where its like i'm a russian jew and youre a german jew and so forth??? ethnic enclaves etc...

Basically, israelis are able to classify the russians into two kinds. The ones that immigrated before 1990 (beforee the fall of the USSR) and those that immigrated after.

Before 1990, tend to be the more ideological Russians, that came for zionist reasons. This is because at this time, it was more difficult to get out of the USSR, and those that came did so on their own initiatiion and effort. They tended to be quite educated, cultured etc, identified themselves as jews, and tried to intigrate into israeli society. By now their kids speak hebrew at home and are as likely to have a moroccan jew friend as a russian jew friend. They are also not looking to 'move up' to a european or american citizenship.

The ones after 1990 are more problematic. This I blame largely on Israel and the jewish agency. Once the USSR fell, the jew agency entered and tried to propogandize to get immigrants. They told of all the absortion help they would get etc. So many non -jew russians heard and saw Israel as the ticket to the western world/ european citizenship. Either they had one jew grandparent that caused them to have jew written on the ethnicity part of their russian passport, or they 'created' a jewish grandparent, which apparently is not so difficult in the former soviet union. These are the current russian immigrants. And one of the israeli ministers got in trouble when he said the basic truth 'the immigrants from the USSR after 1990 are just criminals, or the elderly and handicapped looking for good healthcare'. Basically, they do stand out in israeli society. They still have russian accents, have only russian friends, they look like that russian boxer in rocky, wear crosses and pray to jesus, and are looking to get a better citizenship. They also hate arabs as much as they hate israel for 'not giving them enough absorption money'.

Of course the above is generalizations, but they do come from somewhere. Still I have good friends and have met good people from both categories. And the best boxers to train with tend to be the newer russians.

As far as other ethnic enclaves, ethiopians still have it alittle, since they are relatively new immigrants. Ashkenazi and sephardic are basically indifferentiable for the most parts currently and intermingle/intermarriage freely.

[Mens Rea]

Will all the jews please stand up and be identified, for the record?

[Mr.Totality]

might as well take a roll call