Save
Random Shot: 
 

Welcome to the Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

 

Go Back  Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > General Discussion > The War Room > The feasiblity of a war with Iran by the US; a boy who cried wolf.

Reply
 
Sherdog Forums
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-25-2007, 07:36 PM   #1 (permalink)

Brown Belt
 
Mr. Omoplata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,892
Status: Mr. Omoplata is offline
The feasiblity of a war with Iran by the US; a boy who cried wolf.

Before we begin, I would like to ask anyone with biased nationalism or relevant bias to choose to try and reply in an intelligent unbiased manner, because it generally makes for a much better discussion. Also, we will mostly discuss facts backed by sources, but you're welcome to provide educated opinions.


Ok, for starters lets discuss what I mean by the US being the "boy who cried wolf":

As everyone knows, the United States decided to invade Iraq a couple years back because they claimed that a most "vile and evil" regime, led by Saddam, had in it's possession Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) and were well on their way to making nukes (if not already possessed some). What made it worse, they added, was that they were extremely anti-american (queue videos of random iraq's burning american flags) and that the world would be in terrible danger if Saddam and his regime were not stopped (by means of war). Later on, as we know, none of this was true and now we are stuck in a war that no one knows how to get out of. This is the first part of the story of the boy who cried wolf.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20030322.html


Now fast forward to present day, most of of you should know where I'm getting to by now, but I'll explain anyways. Iran comes along. They tell the world they started their nuclear reactors for some time now and are using them to make civilian "Nuclear Energy" to supply the growing electrical needs of their people. Which was confirmed by many nations including the US, but is widely understood to be a front to make nuclear weapons or Weapons of Mass Destruction. Not only that, the favorite pass time of the average iranian official is to chant "death to america" with all his colleagues. Sound familiar yet? Now the US government is in pickle. They are facing a situation where the exact same premise behind the invasion of iraq, which was found out to be fabricated, is actually happening with Iran. Which means the "boy who cried wolf" is the US and at first it was a lie, but now that the "wolf" has really shown up, what is the boy supposed to do except to get eaten? This is the second and last part of the boy who cried wolf.

http://english.people.com.cn/200606/...11_272937.html


Now lets move on, shall we, and discuss the feasibility of an actual invasion of Iran by none other then the US:

First off, I don't believe that the US is limited with it's military in iraq and afghanistan to be incapable of fighting a winnable war against Iran, and none of you should either. They have enough air power to wipe out the current iranian airforce and target what ever strategic points that is necessary to take out.

But it's interesting to note that rumors have been going about that both Russia and China have contracted billion dollar deals with Iran to provide them with up to a total of 300 or so top of the line military aircraft, including the Sukhoi Su-30 and the J-10. However, they won't get all the aircrafts until about 2009 or 2010.

It's also interesting to note that Russia has publicly announced another billion dollar arms deal with Iran which includes many anti-air missile defense weapons and the like. Iran also has it's own missiles that can be launched up to 2100km (which is roughly 1,300 miles).

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,177566,00.html

As far as ground troops go, because we all should know that having a good air offensive is not going to win the war alone, Iran has far greater numbers that include active personnel of about 500k and a further 11 million inactive that can be mobilized. However, only the revolutionary guards, a section of the iranian military with about 125k personnel, have above average military training. In the end though, what matters most is the weaponry available to the ground troops and in the case of iran, it fails in comparison to the US. Still, though, they are not as bad off as you would think.

The Iranians have considerably well equipped soldiers that have modern uniforms and weaponry which include the m-16, the G-3, the "Khaibar", and the ever reliable ak-47. Their tanks include modern main battle tanks and a few artillery tanks, with personnel carrying tanks also available. They plan on making an upgraded version of their current tanks, called the Zulfiqar 3 MBT. (photos are shown below).

If anyone else wants to elaborate or contribute to the capabilities of the Iranian military, then please do so.






In general, attacking Iran is feasible to the US, but it would be a much more conventional war then the current one with iraq, which means much more costly. Especially when Iran chooses to base it's military more on quantity than on quality, which can become a problem in the long run for the US. However, it still carries disadvantage for the Iranians by making them an easier target. Also, the fact that China and Russia are vehemently against such a war hinting some sort of retaliation, adds another monkey wrench to the equation.

Based on the evidence, Iran is no Iraq. That's why the Bush admin. hasn't jumped the gun... yet, and the chances of them doing so are very low if you also consider the economical blow back. However, the option is always on the table.


Your thoughts and contributions are much welcomed.
__________________
“He who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserves neither.” - Benjamin Franklin

Last edited by Mr. Omoplata : 11-25-2007 at 09:43 PM.
Mr. Omoplata is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2007, 07:59 PM   #2 (permalink)

Brown Belt
 
Pridelives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada eh!
Posts: 2,646
Status: Pridelives is offline
I think this is interesting thread, and agree with you accept on one point you bring to the table; you say,

'In general, attacking Iran is feasible to the US, but it would be a much more conventional war then the current one with Iraq, which means much more costly. Especially when Iran chooses to base it's military more on quantity than on quality, this can become a problem in the long run. Also, the fact that China and Russia are vehemently against such a war hinting some sort of retaliation, adds another monkey wrench to the equation.


I think that Iran's quantity in military infrastructure and armaments conventionally speaking, is a actually a weakness to them. Because they are more likely to engage in a conventional manner underneath an air zone where the good US of A will own like a Filipino whore.

just some thoughts.
Pridelives is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:02 PM   #3 (permalink)

Brown Belt
 
Mr. Omoplata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,892
Status: Mr. Omoplata is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pridelives View Post
I think this is interesting thread, and agree with you accept on one point you bring to the table; you say,

'In general, attacking Iran is feasible to the US, but it would be a much more conventional war then the current one with Iraq, which means much more costly. Especially when Iran chooses to base it's military more on quantity than on quality, this can become a problem in the long run. Also, the fact that China and Russia are vehemently against such a war hinting some sort of retaliation, adds another monkey wrench to the equation.


I think that Iran's quantity in military infrastructure and armaments conventionally speaking, is a actually a weakness to them. Because they are more likely to engage in a conventional manner underneath an air zone where the good US of A will own like a Filipino whore.

just some thoughts.

Oh sorry, what I meant to say was that it could become a problem for both sides and that it has it's advantages as well as it's disadvantages. Having quantity does make you an easier target, but it also means you will have more chances to survive and retaliate to do what ever.

Sorry, I'll edit my post.
__________________
“He who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserves neither.” - Benjamin Franklin
Mr. Omoplata is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:03 PM   #4 (permalink)

Orange Belt
 
funcrusher2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 312
Status: funcrusher2007 is offline
i think you hit it dead on ,I dont think the us not invading iran would be a question of not having the military resources but the more importantly the roles russia and china would play in this.not too mention i think it would be pretty damn hard to sell this one to the american people,sure the neo fucks will always stand by but the one benefit of bush totally fucking everything up is that his credit has gone too shit. he would also face a pretty up hill battle with congress especialy with election coming up.


when they voted to identify the iranian gaurd a terrorist org. that had me a little nervous but now looking at it i dont think it will be enough to sell an invasion.



oh yeah ron paul 08 bitches
funcrusher2007 is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:19 PM   #5 (permalink)

Brown Belt
 
Pridelives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada eh!
Posts: 2,646
Status: Pridelives is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Omoplata View Post
Oh sorry, what I meant to say was that it could become a problem for both sides and that it has it's advantages as well as it's disadvantages. Having quantity does make you an easier target, but it also means you will have more chances to survive and retaliate to do what ever.

Sorry, I'll edit my post.

No apologies needed, I thoroughly agree with the theory you bring to the table.

At the very least the U.S would fall even MORE unreasonably into debt.

I think that also if America waged war on Iran Isreal would be involved and would give good air support.
Pridelives is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:21 PM   #6 (permalink)

Brown Belt
 
Pridelives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada eh!
Posts: 2,646
Status: Pridelives is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by funcrusher2007 View Post
i think you hit it dead on ,I dont think the us not invading iran would be a question of not having the military resources but the more importantly the roles russia and china would play in this.not too mention i think it would be pretty damn hard to sell this one to the american people,sure the neo fucks will always stand by but the one benefit of bush totally fucking everything up is that his credit has gone too shit. he would also face a pretty up hill battle with congress especialy with election coming up.


when they voted to identify the iranian gaurd a terrorist org. that had me a little nervous but now looking at it i dont think it will be enough to sell an invasion.



oh yeah ron paul 08 bitches

Selling something to the American people is like selling a sports car to a guy in his mid life crisis.
Pridelives is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
In it for the laughs
 
dylanransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Snuggling in Carlin's Coffin
Posts: 4,754
Status: dylanransom is offline
Send a message via ICQ to dylanransom Send a message via AIM to dylanransom Send a message via Yahoo to dylanransom
We have to assume our government is lying to us about Iran. The IAEA report caught us in more than one lie already.

Plus, if Iraq is a mess, Iran would be a horrible nightmare. Larger country, higher population, more crazy religious people...we're fucked if we try. Sure, it's obvious that we can crush their military quite easily, but holding the country and keeping things stable? Not a chance.

How many of you want to fork out a trillion dollars for another idealogical war?
__________________
Let's keep an eye on who benefits from this economic crisis. Remember that wealth doesn't disappear, as some of you are so fond of saying.
dylanransom is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:37 PM   #8 (permalink)

Orange Belt
 
funcrusher2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 312
Status: funcrusher2007 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pridelives View Post
Selling something to the American people is like selling a sports car to a guy in his mid life crisis.
too true
funcrusher2007 is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:38 PM   #9 (permalink)

Black Belt
 
muerteverde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rural New York
Posts: 7,046
Status: muerteverde is offline
Send a message via MSN to muerteverde
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanransom View Post
Sure, it's obvious that we can crush their military quite easily, but holding the country and keeping things stable?

Is it so obvious? I am not so sure. They are motivated, larger and far better equiped than Iraq was and they have powerful allies. They have everything going for them that Iraq did not. The invasion of Iraq went smoothly with little damage done to the US. We can expect far greater damage inflicted on the invader in a war against Iran, not to mention the resistance movement that would follow (we would not be liberators to anyone).
__________________
The purpose of education is to free the student from the tyranny of the present. -Cicero
muerteverde is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
In it for the laughs
 
dylanransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Snuggling in Carlin's Coffin
Posts: 4,754
Status: dylanransom is offline
Send a message via ICQ to dylanransom Send a message via AIM to dylanransom Send a message via Yahoo to dylanransom
Quote:
Originally Posted by muerteverde View Post
Is it so obvious? I am not so sure. They are motivated, larger and far better equiped than Iraq was and they have powerful allies. They have everything going for them that Iraq did not. The invasion of Iraq went smoothly with little damage done to the US. We can expect far greater damage inflicted on the invader in a war against Iran, not to mention the resistance movement that would follow (we would not be liberators to anyone).
Yeah, it would probably be harder than it was in Iraq to defeat their army, but it still wouldn't be much of a fight. We can obliterate their entire military industrial complex in a two week bombing campaign. The resistance movement, I agree, would be HELL to deal with, and we could never hold that country unless we committed millions of boots.

There's also the possibility that they will offer no resistance, and move the whole operation underground- bigA has more than hinted at that possibility. That would be a disaster for us.
__________________
Let's keep an eye on who benefits from this economic crisis. Remember that wealth doesn't disappear, as some of you are so fond of saying.
dylanransom is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote

Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is the war with Iran avoidable? SleepyBoy The War Room 185 10-03-2007 09:26 AM
China supplying insurgents through Iran clmetal The War Room 89 06-16-2007 03:33 PM
Iran moves to execute porn stars Typonenko The War Room 70 06-15-2007 04:46 AM
Al-Qaeda spark for an Iran-US fire flatline The War Room 46 06-07-2007 04:50 PM
Chomsky on Iran: "A Predator Becomes More Dangerous When Wounded" IRIjudo The War Room 169 03-15-2007 04:36 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version {1. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008 Sherdog.com