[wheelkick]

I once heard an ethics professor argue that the chairs we were sitting in were not real and that we couldn't prove that they were real. This discussion is just about as foolish. Of course evil exsist. So does the wind , rain, pluto ect. It's evidence is all around us.

[b0st0n]

Originally Posted by Revolution

Mods: this is not a religion thread!! Ok, anyway . . .
As a lawyer, I've been exposed to a lot of depravity in my time, and it makes me wonder about a question I once asked a law professor of mine: are we anything more than the sum of our genetics and experience? If the answer is no (as my law professor theorized it is), then how can we justify the criminal justice system as a means of "punishment?" Incapacitation, yes, deterrence, yes, but punishment/retribution?
I do in fact believe there is some "higher" thought process. To paraphrase Justice Antonin Scalia of the U.S. Supreme Court (I don't know the exact quote), it does not take a highly developed sense of morality to recognize that there is something profoundly wrong with raping, torturing, and killing a child. (If memory serves, the death row defendants in that case were there because they jointly raped a 10 year old, then murdered her by suffocation -- they stuffed her underwear down her throat to asphixiate her. Yes, you read that correctly.)
But it's tough to quantify evil. You might not rank some idiot KKK loser from 80 years ago very high, but what would that loser do if he had the dictatorial power of, say, Hitler? He would probably try to kill all blacks, Jews, Catholics, homosexuals, etc. So is he "worse" than a murderer and torturer like, say, BTK? Or how about Dahmer, who was so obviously mentally ill?
So, can we actually quantify evil? And does evil, even in a non-religious sense, even exist?
(BTW, I'm nursing a pinched nerve. My mind is wandering. Cut me some slack for the ugly Saturday night question )
--Rev

Evil is a value judgment, but Michael Stone, a forensic psychologist from Columbia University, has developed a 22 step scale of "evil" that attempts to quantify it. The show Most Evil is that comes on Investigating Discovery is centered around this scale, with each show profiling various murderers and classifies their crime.

01 Those who kill in self-defense and do not show psychopathic tendencies
02 Jealous lovers who, though egocentric or immature, are not psychopathic
03 Willing companions of killers: aberrant personality — probably impulse-ridden, with antisocial traits
04 Kill in self-defense, but had been extremely provocative towards the victim
05 Traumatized, desperate people who kill abusive relatives and others (like to support a drug habit) but lack significant traits. Genuinely remorseful.
06 Impetuous, hotheaded murderers, yet without marked psychopathic features
07 Highly narcissistic, not distinctly psychopathic people with a psychotic core who kill people close to them (jealousy an underlying motive)
08 Non psychopathic people with smoldering rage who kill when rage is ignited
09 Jealous lovers with psychopathic features
10 Killers of people who were "in the way" or who killed, for example, witnesses (egocentric but not distinctly psychopathic)
11 Psychopathic killers of people "in the way"
12 Power-hungry psychopaths who killed when they were "cornered"
13 Killers with inadequate, rage-filled personalities who "snapped"
14 Ruthlessly self-centered psychopathic schemers
15 Psychopathic "cold-blooded" spree or multiple murders
16 Psychopaths committing multiple vicious acts
17 Sexually perverse serial murderers, torture-murderers (among the males, rape is the primary motive with murder to hide the evidence; Systematic torture is not a primary factor)
18 Torture-murderers with murder the primary motive
19 Psychopaths driven to terrorism, subjugation, intimidation and rape, (short of murder)
20 Torture murderers with torture as the primary motive but in psychotic personalities
21 Psychopaths preoccupied with torture in the extreme, but not known to have committed murder
22 Psychopathic torture-murderers, with torture their primary motive, sexual homicide

[Rematch]

I believe that evil is a non-sentient force that sentient beings often succumb to. Much like a drug user to his drug. We as human beings must take the personal responsibility not to try our best not to succumb to evil.

[bulldogs85]

This is just the nature vs nurture debate that has been going on in sociology forever.

I think evil does exist. Some people simply has less regard for human life than others. And some actually enjoy inflicting pain on others. Evil vs mental disorder? Who knows. Without getting into religion/spirit, we can't really address that issue, but yeah, "evil", "bad intent", "dangerous mental disorders", whatever we call it, it exists.

Human greed also exists. And left unregulated, we would have absolute chaos. That, IMO, is the true intent of the criminal justice system. To regulate greed, not to combat evil. Think about crime. It all comes back to greed.

[RemoWilliams]

My mother spent time in Foreign missions and once told me

"Spend some time in the deep provinces of the Phillipine Jungles of Pangasinnaan. Whether you're an intellectual, a theologian, a scientist, or just plain someone who thinks they're rational? You'll see things there, that when you leave? You WILL believe in an absolute good and an absolute Evil!"

So I gues, this mother's day. Can't ever argue with mom. So my answer would be yes. And mom was was once agnostic until her times in foreign missions.

[Rematch]

Originally Posted by bulldogs85

This is just the nature vs nurture debate that has been going on in sociology forever.

I think evil does exist. Some people simply has less regard for human life than others. And some actually enjoy inflicting pain on others. Evil vs mental disorder? Who knows. Without getting into religion/spirit, we can't really address that issue, but yeah, "evil", "bad intent", "dangerous mental disorders", whatever we call it, it exists.

Human greed also exists. And left unregulated, we would have absolute chaos. That, IMO, is the true intent of the criminal justice system. To regulate greed, not to combat evil. Think about crime. It all comes back to greed.

What about crimes of passion?

[Mithra]

No, evil and good are human constructs..

There is no "evil" nor "good", simply acts that benefit society and those that do not.

Originally Posted by Q mystic

If there is no free will, there is no punishment right?

Not at all, if we accept that there is no free will(which is a conclusion supported by science) that does not mean there would be no punishment.

If a bear mauls someone, we don't think the bear is evil, we just put it down because it has proven to be a threat to us.



If men were born free, they would, so long as they remained free, form no conception of good and evil.
Baruch Spinoza

The conscience of children is formed by the influences that surround them; their notions of good and evil are the result of the moral atmosphere they breathe.
Jean Paul Richter

[Nietzsche13]

Narrowing it to the natural world for the moment, that which selects one primary structure over others is a process that invloves evil. Some structures cease to exist in time and space. This is evolution or natural selection, sometimes called evilution. But it is good, this evil.

[KidBaize]

The only thing that counts in the end is power! Naked merciless force!

Members of the Citizens Council, I am a simple soldier. And as a soldier, I see things simply. I don't say all humans are evil, simply because their skin is white.

No.

But our great Lawgiver tells us that never, never will the human have the ape's divine faculty for being able to distinguish between evil and good.

The only good human is a dead human!

[Title Fight Productions]

Evil and Good are judged by the society that they exist in....

Not sure what this has to do with religion?