[HeadBanger]

Another words: are you an athiest?

[GOD_OF_MUAYTHAI]

evil is an antiquated notion, there are some depraved individuals but there sociopaths, and thats more of a brain disorder.christianity poses some very deep philsophical issues. is god all good ? if he is then why does he allow evil in the world ? if he allows because he cant prevent it then he is not all powerful, if he allows it, then he is not all good, and it seems that the creation of satan allows for some type of legal loophole absolving god of any type of blame. then you get into ideas of pre destination and free will, which I wont go into but are utterly laughable and full of paradoxes.

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by Zankou

Why is some concept of "free will" required for punishment?

It's enough to make punishment meaningful if it punishes illicit action. The point of punishment is not deterrence per se, it's justice -- preventing people from getting ahead by wrongful actions, regardless of whether they "freely choose" to commit them or not.

In ancient legal systems, the impetus towards justice was so strong that inanimate objects, animals, and the dead were commonly put on trial and condemned. Think of Xerxes scourging the Hellespont, for example. Another example, one of the things that Mohammed forbade was the common practice in Arabia of trying and punishing the dead. Over time, the coercive and deterrent aspects of punishment became predominant in more advanced civilizations, and the impulse for justice was dispersed and minimized. Nowadays we hardly think about punishing the dead, but you can imagine the appeal of such a concept -- even in death, you won't get away with it, everything and everyone you care about will pay a price for your sins.

Transcendental religions (and their secularized successors) effectively defanged the burning desire for justice across the world, helping civilization on its path. Instead, pitiful lies about justice in another world or possession by evil spirits (aka, liberalism's "bad childhood") are used to exorcise the demands for justice.

If there is no free will, there is no punishment right?

[VikingRage]

Yes, but it is not supernatural, it is just how you are and what defines good and evil. If I see a cat and it is in trouble and I help it, that is good. If I see a cat and it is in trouble and I decide to set its tail on fire while cutting it with a knife, thats evil.

[FoxTrot9R]

Originally Posted by GOD_OF_MUAYTHAI

evil is an antiquated notion, there are some depraved individuals but there sociopaths, and thats more of a brain disorder.christianity poses some very deep philsophical issues. is god all good ? if he is then why does he allow evil in the world ? if he allows because he cant prevent it then he is not all powerful, if he allows it, then he is not all good, and it seems that the creation of satan allows for some type of legal loophole absolving god of any type of blame. then you get into ideas of pre destination and free will, which I wont go into but are utterly laughable and full of paradoxes.

I believe you are merely given a reason why they are evil. Despite why they do these deprave acts, I believe they are still evil. Raping a 10 year old is evil, Being a sociopath or having a Dissociative disorder doesnt change that. My opinion

[HeadBanger]

evil- morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked

evil - Definitions from Dictionary.com

[Chthon]

This is a rather esoteric question; wouldn't it have been more appropriate in Mayberry?

[Sanin]

Originally Posted by Q mystic

If there is no free will, there is no punishment right?

That's exactly his point, whether the action is made of "free will" is irrelevant. I've had this discussion a number of times and as I see it the important issue is this. Even if the future is predetermined it is not known to us before hand. When we make any action or have any thought we do so with the illusion of free will. In other words we are free to make any choice we wish, even if we were predetermined to always make a particular choice. Because of that we are responsible for the choices we make.
To take it a step further, and more in line with the previous point, the point of punishment is justice. If someone is murdered it is irrelevant to the victim whether the murderer is punished. But, the reason the criminal is punished is to satisfy the society’s sense of justice.

[Sohei]

Originally Posted by Chthon

This is a rather esoteric question; wouldn't it have been more appropriate in Mayberry?

I thought it was pretty juvenile actually.

[Ezra Pound]

Absolutely. Some people will go to any lengths.