[Pillbox Joe]

Originally Posted by smasheroffaces

yes satan exists and his demons also. they are angels in fact and they are in a battle right now for everyones souls

You and enginekid will make very good friends.

[smasheroffaces]

Originally Posted by Pillbox Joe

You and enginekid will make very good friends.

hey man i dont think so bud. hes way to smart for me to hang out with lol

[Pillbox Joe]

Originally Posted by smasheroffaces

hey man i dont think so bud. hes way to smart for me to hang out with lol

LOL!!! i see what you did there.

[1000 yrd. stare]

Originally Posted by Jerome_1

What Roman Emperor is that in your AV?

Caracalla. i know, he was assassinated pretty quick, but i happen to be a spitting image of the guy.

[logos]

Originally Posted by Pillbox Joe

Who is to say who is stealing from who in the first place? Should taxes be considered theft? There are those who believe it is theft, and those who believe so frown upon the government. What of societies that have no conscious belief in personal property. How does one account for that when they believe that personal property and theft are inherent in the human conscious?

I am trying to convince you that universal moral principles exist. Of course there are individuals who would claim that stealing or killing is okay, but this does negate the fact that most human societies share a central set of morals. When I say universal, I mean moral principles that have stood the test of time. Not to drag this discussion down the religous road, but the ten commandments are a good example. They are used as a central point in ascertaining right and wrong. Furthermore, they are examples adhered to by cultures who are not Christian.

[1000 yrd. stare]

Originally Posted by Pillbox Joe

so will every single person on earth agree that it is wrong? because if there are people that dont agree, then the act isn't necessarily intrinsically wrong, that would only be some people's opinion. there will also be those that dont believe in property, there are even societies on earth even today that don't even have a word for personal property. this is especially true in many primitive indonesian and new guinea societies.

Wait, we are starting to confuse wrong and evil.

[Pillbox Joe]

Originally Posted by logos

I am trying to convince you that universal moral principles exist. Of course there are individuals who would claim that stealing or killing is okay, but this does negate the fact that most human societies share a central set of morals. When I say universal, I mean moral principles that have stood the test of time. Not to drag this discussion down the religous road, but the ten commandments are a good example. They are used as a central point in ascertaining right and wrong. Furthermore, they are examples adhered to by cultures who are not Christian.

First off, the ten commandments is a good point in proving that there are cultural values that have existed for long periods. This is true. However, for the ten commandments to be used as reference material for good and evil only shows that good and evil are learned concepts through perhaps a sort of collective conscious through the use of knowledge.

It doesn't, however, prove that good and evil is inherent. It does further strengthen the idea that perhaps we are predisposed to certain ideas passed down by knowledge. This, however, in my opinion, would only be because of practical purposes of functioning as a sort of collective defensive mechanism. It's a learned mechanism in response to the lack of natural defensive mechanisms needed to function as a group.

Therefore, we would be born with no knowledge of good and evil. We use passed down information to learn good and evil through ten commandments, hammurabi's code, etc.

[enginekid]

logos just findout where the guy lives and when hes not home break in and steal all his shit. see how much he enjoys it.

[Pillbox Joe]

Originally Posted by enginekid

logos just findout where the guy lives and when hes not home break in and steal all his shit. see how much he enjoys it.

If he's so desperate for stuff, I would give it to him. Because, unlike you, I am not an evil racist.

[smasheroffaces]

c.s lewis in mere christianity the first chapter covers the (is there moral laws) .universal moral laws debate........good stuff