[Piper]

Here are some great videos of debates BY ARABS on the myth of Islamic contributions to western civilization.

It is GREAT to see secular Arabs openly defending the value of Western Civilization against 7th Century mullahs.

A Debate between an Egyptian Liberal and a London Islamist
YouTube - A Debate between an Egyptian Liberal and a London Islamist

Myth of Islamic Contribution to Human Civilization
YouTube - The Myth of Islamic Contribution to Human Civilization

"What Have Islamic Countries Contributed to the World?"
YouTube - "What Have Islamic Countries Contributed to the World?"

Liberal Bahraini Author Expresses Amazing Views
Bahraini Intellectual Dhiyaa Al-Musawi
YouTube - Liberal Bahraini Author Expresses Amazing Views
A really great surprise to see and hear this.

Bahraini Intellectual Dhiyaa Al-Musawi

This guy needs to be on more broadcasts and listened to more and more in the Middle East and other parts of the world. I hope he lives long and that the ruler of Bahrain protects him and others that believe what he is saying. Also, hopefully, what he is saying will continue to be broadcast on Al-Jazeerah.

Video here: YouTube - Liberal Bahraini Author Expresses Amazing Views

[bubba]

Originally Posted by cenovio

I hear ya. But this deserves a much larger look. You see, some people have this predominating "supremacist" view that "whites" are just better than others. When that is ignorance at it's best. The indigenous peoples of the Americas were isolated from the technological innovations of the western world. In fact Europe benefitted from technological innovations that took place in the Middle East and Asia.
We cannot blame the impoverished for seeking a better life. We can however blame their government and ours, for perpetuating the impoverishment. Mexico suffers from an Elitist attitude that goes back to 1492. You see there are direct correlations throughout history. Watch any Novela and tell me if you see a predominance of brown people. It is because of the discrimination that has been passed down through time and that has never been corrected.

its just the people that dont know better calling all whites evil and slave drivers, or the use of spreading disease when in fact the people that are saying that are only in the place they are today is because of white influence.

[PaiMei]

yes, that wasn't much of an influence on Spain now was it? Like i said, the Muslim influence on Spain was long gone. Not only did they reconquer the lands, but they kicked them out or made them convert too.


As for the source on the illegal immigrants asked by someone else....

Newsvine - Estimated 30 Million illegal aliens and the cost to U.S. taxpayers.

[cenovio]

Originally Posted by Piper

As I said, you don't have the facts. Read someone who is an expert:

Dhimmi Watch: Andalusian Myth, Eurabian Reality

Iberia (Spain) was conquered in 710-716 AD by Arab tribes originating from northern, central and southern Arabia. Massive Berber and Arab immigration, and the colonization of the Iberian peninsula, followed the conquest.

Toledo, which had first submitted to the Arabs in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. The town was punished by pillage and all the notables had their throats cut. In 730, the Cerdagne (in Septimania, near Barcelona) was ravaged and a bishop burned alive. In the regions under stable Islamic control, Jews and Christians were tolerated as dhimmis - like elsewhere in other Islamic lands - and could not build new churches or synagogues nor restore the old ones. Segregated in special quarters, they had to wear discriminatory clothing. Subjected to heavy taxes, the Christian peasantry formed a servile class attached to the Arab domains; many abandoned their land and fled to the towns. Harsh reprisals with mutilations and crucifixions* would sanction the Mozarab (Christian dhimmis) calls for help from the Christian kings. Moreover, if one dhimmi harmed a Muslim, the whole community would lose its status of protection, leaving it open to pillage, enslavement and arbitrary killing.

By the end of the eighth century, the rulers of North Africa and of Andalusia had introduced Malikism, one of the most rigorous schools of Islamic jurisprudence, and subsequently repressed the other Muslim schools of law. Three quarters of a century ago, at a time when political correctness was not dominating historical publication and discourse, Evariste Lévi-Provençal, the pre-eminent scholar of Andalusia, wrote: "The Muslim Andalusian state thus appears from its earliest origins as the defender and champion of a jealous orthodoxy, more and more ossified in a blind respect for a rigid doctrine, suspecting and condemning in advance the least effort of rational speculation."

The humiliating status imposed on the dhimmis and the confiscation of their land provoked many revolts, punished by massacres, as in Toledo (761, 784-86, 797). After another Toledan revolt in 806, seven hundred inhabitants were executed. Insurrections erupted in Saragossa from 781 to 881, Cordova (805), Merida (805-813, 828 and the following year, and later in 868), and yet again in Toledo (811-819); the insurgents were crucified, as prescribed in Qur’an 5:33*.

The revolt in Cordova of 818 was crushed by three days of massacres and pillage, with 300 notables crucified and 20 000 families expelled. Feuding was endemic in the Andalusian cities between the different sectors of the population: Arab and Berber colonizers, Iberian Muslim converts (Muwalladun) and Christian dhimmis (Mozarabs). There were rarely periods of peace in the Amirate of Cordova (756-912), nor later.

Al-Andalus represented the land of jihad par excellence. Every year, sometimes twice a year, raiding expeditions were sent to ravage the Christian Spanish kingdoms to the north, the Basque regions, or France and the Rhone valley, bringing back booty and slaves. Andalusian corsairs attacked and invaded along the Sicilian and Italian coasts, even as far as the Aegean Islands, looting and burning as they went. Thousands of people were deported to slavery in Andalusia, where the caliph kept a militia of tens of thousand of Christian slaves brought from all parts of Christian Europe (the Saqaliba), and a harem filled with captured Christian women. Society was sharply divided along ethnic and religious lines, with the Arab tribes at the top of the hierarchy, followed by the Berbers who were never recognized as equals, despite their Islamization; lower in the scale came the mullawadun converts and, at the very bottom, the dhimmi Christians and Jews.

continue reading the full article here: Dhimmi Watch: Andalusian Myth, Eurabian Reality

I don't disagree with the article, but I am amused that you got it off of "Dhimmi watch". A website run by neoconservatives. And actually that essay was written by two people, A staunch neoconservative who is also a Fox news commentator, and a Jew,LOL.
Like I said, I don't have the stance that Islam is innocent or has done no wrong. I simply pointed out it's contributions to Europe.

[cenovio]

Originally Posted by PaiMei

yes, that wasn't much of an influence on Spain now was it? Like i said, the Muslim influence on Spain was long gone. Not only did they reconquer the lands, but they kicked them out or made them convert too.


As for the source on the illegal immigrants asked by someone else....

Newsvine - Estimated 30 Million illegal aliens and the cost to U.S. taxpayers.

Ok, now you are being delusional.

[cenovio]

Originally Posted by Piper

Here are some great videos of debates BY ARABS on the myth of Islamic contributions to western civilization.

It is GREAT to see secular Arabs openly defending the value of Western Civilization against 7th Century mullahs.

A Debate between an Egyptian Liberal and a London Islamist
YouTube - A Debate between an Egyptian Liberal and a London Islamist

Myth of Islamic Contribution to Human Civilization
YouTube - The Myth of Islamic Contribution to Human Civilization

"What Have Islamic Countries Contributed to the World?"
YouTube - "What Have Islamic Countries Contributed to the World?"

Liberal Bahraini Author Expresses Amazing Views
Bahraini Intellectual Dhiyaa Al-Musawi
YouTube - Liberal Bahraini Author Expresses Amazing Views
A really great surprise to see and hear this.

Bahraini Intellectual Dhiyaa Al-Musawi

This guy needs to be on more broadcasts and listened to more and more in the Middle East and other parts of the world. I hope he lives long and that the ruler of Bahrain protects him and others that believe what he is saying. Also, hopefully, what he is saying will continue to be broadcast on Al-Jazeerah.

Video here: YouTube - Liberal Bahraini Author Expresses Amazing Views

THE LAST GUY TALKS ABOUT HOW ISLAM HAD A GREAT CIVILIZATION IN ANDALUSIA. Dhiyaa Al-Musawi
.What he is commenting on is the decline of the Islamic culture in present times. And being against idealogies! Come on now. You can't be serious.

[PaiMei]

I'm not the one who claimed that we have Islam to thank for the renaissance.

Reconquista - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Educate yourself about it.

[SVcabron]

The dobbs show as a source? You also said 1/3 of all prisoners are illegal, well if we are to believe the source it said 30 percent of federal prisoners are illegal not all prisoners in all of the jail/prisons.

[PaiMei]

Originally Posted by SVcabron

The dobbs show as a source? You also said 1/3 of all prisoners are illegal, well if we are to believe the source it said 30 percent of federal prisoners are illegal not all prisoners in all of the jail/prisons.

who cares about someone in a county jail for getting a bj from a hooker?

Federal prisoners are the worst offenders, the ones who rape and kill.

[cenovio]

Originally Posted by PaiMei

I'm not the one who claimed that we have Islam to thank for the renaissance.

Reconquista - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Educate yourself about it.

First of all, you are using wikipedia as a source. Nuff said. Second of all, where have you refuted my claim that Islam was the source for the renaissance? If you pulled your head out of your ass long enough to read the wikipedia page, you would see that the last muslim ruler left in 1492! But you can't convince an idiot. My posts speak for themselves. Bring some irrefutable evidence instead copy pasting some googled wikidookie.