[GermanBJJ]

Originally Posted by USAMMAFAN

Lmao, capitalism is taking from the poor and giving to the rich, if anything ever was such.

Well, in capitalism there is no taking; there is only voluntary giving.

[TaebownzBJJ]

Originally Posted by ChiefStrategist

Since when is increasing government revenue a good thing? More Government Revenue = Less revenues for me. Explain why this is great fucking idea.

You are going on the premise that Government is a big business (which you hate), yet you are demanding that this big business increase revenues off of "the sweat from the workers backs". Could you be a bigger hypocrite?

Since when is taking from the poor and giving it to the rich (Federal Government) a good idea?

It's not necessarily that each person is having less money that leads to greater government revenue. It's the fact that more money in people's pockets, from paying less in taxes, means they have more money to spend which creates jobs, which in turn creates taxpayers.

[TaebownzBJJ]

Originally Posted by James Bomb

Bush is the most conservative president in modern history. You can't just put him on waivers because he fucked things up, and because he has a shitty approval rating.

If some Marxist came in here and posted that "true socialism" hasn't been tried yet, some of the people in this thread would be snickering within the first page - yet you guys can say the same thing about "true conservatism" and not expect everybody's bullshit detector to go off. Yeah right.

Most conservative compared to whom? Tim Sylvia is the best HW in the UFC...that doesn't make him a great fighter.

[USAMMAFAN]

Originally Posted by GermanBJJ

Well, in capitalism there is no taking; there is only voluntary giving.

not really, things such as food, water, and shelter are in no ways "voluntary"

if you dont receive such things you die

when capitalist buy up such resources they are taking them from the community at large

for instance when capitalist killed off the native people of america and took their land, wtf was voluntary about that?

[GermanBJJ]

Originally Posted by USAMMAFAN

not really, things such as food, water, and shelter are in no ways "voluntary"

if you dont receive such things you die

when capitalist buy up such resources they are taking them from the community at large

You need to re-read the definition of voluntary. No person has an inherent right to food, water or shelter.

And a capitalist cannot take resources from a community because those resources never belonged to the community in the first place. You seem to believe the community pre-existed the individual, which is an usual belief. I don't know if there are any anthropologists or sociologists that would agree with this.

Originally Posted by USAMMAFAN

for instance when capitalist killed off the native people of america and took their land, wtf was voluntary about that?

Nothing, because that wasn't capitalism. That was just invasion.

[USAMMAFAN]

Originally Posted by GermanBJJ

You need to re-read the definition of voluntary. No person has an inherent right to food, water or shelter. .

i never said anything about inherent right to food water or shelter, only that those particular commodities are not volutntary

owning a tv set is voluntary, you dont need a tv set to survive, not having food shelter or water isnt a choice, you either have them and live or you dont and die

if no person has an inherent right to food water or shelter, then no person has inherent right to private property or anything else for that matter

Originally Posted by GermanBJJ

And a capitalist cannot take resources from a community because those resources never belonged to the community in the first place. .

thats right they belong to nobody in the beginning, they just simply existed

the capitalist systems just grants the capitalist the exclusive right to use them, but who gives such person said right to do so? Its the community, without the communities protection, such rights would only exist to the degree you could defend them yourself against invaders or the community. If the mob wants your property I got news for you, there isnt much your going to do to stop them from taking it.

"Ownerhip" of anything has nothing to do with any inherent justice of any system, its more the ability to use violence to exclude others from using it. Of course a fairly equitable and just system will minimize this violence, an inequitable one will not, this is the reason countries with large amounts of poverty also have large amounts of "crime".

Originally Posted by GermanBJJ

You seem to believe the community pre-existed the individual, which is an usual belief. I don't know if there are any anthropologists or sociologists that would agree with this..

Yes but by the same token the individual did not pre-exist the community, look at our closest living relatives the bonobos and common chimps, they live in communities. All humans (with the exception of the token hermit) live in communites of varying size, humans are a pack animal, they always have been and they always will be.

Individual rights always have and always will be what the community decides they are, its nice to think they we are all born with "inalienable rights" but we are not, rights only exist to the extent that one can defend them from others who wish to take said rights.

btw this is why democracy works so well, it prevents poltical violence by being flexible and able to adapt to the current situation and needs

[t-dizzle]

Originally Posted by James Bomb

Bush is the most conservative president in modern history. You can't just put him on waivers because he fucked things up, and because he has a shitty approval rating.

If some Marxist came in here and posted that "true socialism" hasn't been tried yet, some of the people in this thread would be snickering within the first page - yet you guys can say the same thing about "true conservatism" and not expect everybody's bullshit detector to go off. Yeah right.

just because you and your retarded friends hate him , that doesn't make him the most conservative president in modern history.

[icantstandit]

Originally Posted by GermanBJJ

You need to re-read the definition of voluntary. No person has an inherent right to food, water or shelter.

You don't think, that if you were born in this country and you pay taxes, that it is your human right to receive the basics- food, water, shelter?

In an advanced capitalist system like ours, I don't see how we can not at least provide food and health services, personally.

Originally Posted by GermanBJJ

And a capitalist cannot take resources from a community because those resources never belonged to the community in the first place. You seem to believe the community pre-existed the individual, which is an usual belief. I don't know if there are any anthropologists or sociologists that would agree with this.

Hmmm... individual existed before the community? They seem to be mutually dependent, because a baby cannot grow into adulthood without the community. One cannot exist without the other.

[USAMMAFAN]

Originally Posted by icantstandit

Hmmm... individual existed before the community? They seem to be mutually dependent, because a baby cannot grow into adulthood without the community. One cannot exist without the other.

humans cant exist without the community, if we only came together to breed like bears do, we would die off quite quickly, we are pack animals that depend on each other for survival

[nofatchicks]

Yet the existance of community is a loosely defined theory. Where does it begin and where does it end? Who is a member? When did it start? The existance of the individual is undeniable.