[mantid]

Bush = Neo-con puppet.

He don't rule the nation. He is middle management.

learn it.

[Octavian]

Originally Posted by ChiefStrategist

Bush represents 1/3rd of American Federal Government power. What dumbasses like icantstandit forget is that congress (including many prominent democrats) have voted in step with the president. You and I may not agree with what the president did, has done, or will do....but our represenatives in congress share the same amount, if not more of the blame as President Bush. And seeing as though the President has done nothing illegal or unconstitutional....

Bush and his cabinet pretty clearly aggressively went after bits of evidence they wanted to believe and called it a war on terror. Fear psychology and the factor it plays in peoples' opinions and votes is HUGE... going against the president on the Iraq issue was called devisive and un-American at the time and Senator Ted Kennedy was lambasted by conservatives for voting against it... Bush successfully paralyzed the left and the democrats in the post 9/11 fear and this is a large reason why many Democrats supported conservative measure - otherwise the conservative media and Reps. would ruin them with anti-American rhetoric.


Our representatives = slightly more Republican than Democrat... 66% - 32% = 34%
... of course Republicans would support a Republican president - it would be political suicide to oppose Bush on matters of war, even if it was unjust but covered up.

Bush = 33%

Bush + Republican majority (through your logic) = 67% of the control in this country

67% and I would even argue that because it is a Republican majority led congress that the control factor for Republicans because of that is close to 75% of the decisions made in congress... democrats have and have had very little ability to truly sway the vote

so -> 75% of 66% = 49.5 or 50 when rounding up..... now we can take another look

...... 50% (Republican majority congress) + 33% (Bush) = 83% control by Bush and the Republicans....

Would you argue that Bush does not have large control over the Republican politicians in Washington?? I would argue that they dyingly support him and find ways to justify his policy.

Democrats have pleanty of blame for their inability to oppose certain things, but then again what can they really do... they have been bullied and walled off by the Republicans, who have a wildly rabbid and outrageously agenda pushing right wing-conservative media to do their dirty work... the Dems can also be blamed for ineptitude when it comes to elections... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory but then again an incumbent sitting on his own war has never lost a reelection.

Using your logic - I estimate that Bush and the Republican party has roughyl 80 to 83% control over this country's policy and thus take on roughly 80-83% of the blame as well. using your logic of course

[Octavian]

Originally Posted by KingSnake

At what?

Raising tax revenue now?

Under Bush II, the tax cuts led to a 6.7% decline in revenue for the first 4 years of his presidency. Because his spending increases far outpaced the decrease in government revenue, the total national debt outstanding increased 41%.


Even the CBO and the joint committee on taxation do not make claims that the tax cuts will pay for themselves.

1980s

Average Economic Growth 2.0%Average Revenue Growth 1.7%

1990s

Average Economic Growth 2.0%Average Revenue Growth 3.5%

2000-2011,

Average Economic Growth 2.1%Average Revenue Growth 0.8%

So how did the tax cuts work wonderfully again?


BTW I'm for tax cuts, but not trickle down economics coupled with a spend thrift congress.

not just owned ... but absolutely dominated

[ChiefStrategist]

Originally Posted by Octavian

Bush and his cabinet pretty clearly aggressively went after bits of evidence they wanted to believe and called it a war on terror. Fear psychology and the factor it plays in peoples' opinions and votes is HUGE... going against the president on the Iraq issue was called devisive and un-American at the time and Senator Ted Kennedy was lambasted by conservatives for voting against it... Bush successfully paralyzed the left and the democrats in the post 9/11 fear and this is a large reason why many Democrats supported conservative measure - otherwise the conservative media and Reps. would ruin them with anti-American rhetoric.


Our representatives = slightly more Republican than Democrat... 66% - 32% = 34%
... of course Republicans would support a Republican president - it would be political suicide to oppose Bush on matters of war, even if it was unjust but covered up.

Bush = 33%

Bush + Republican majority (through your logic) = 67% of the control in this country

67% and I would even argue that because it is a Republican majority led congress that the control factor for Republicans because of that is close to 75% of the decisions made in congress... democrats have and have had very little ability to truly sway the vote

so -> 75% of 66% = 49.5 or 50 when rounding up..... now we can take another look

...... 50% (Republican majority congress) + 33% (Bush) = 83% control by Bush and the Republicans....

Would you argue that Bush does not have large control over the Republican politicians in Washington?? I would argue that they dyingly support him and find ways to justify his policy.

Democrats have pleanty of blame for their inability to oppose certain things, but then again what can they really do... they have been bullied and walled off by the Republicans, who have a wildly rabbid and outrageously agenda pushing right wing-conservative media to do their dirty work... the Dems can also be blamed for ineptitude when it comes to elections... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory but then again an incumbent sitting on his own war has never lost a reelection.

Using your logic - I estimate that Bush and the Republican party has roughyl 80 to 83% control over this country's policy and thus take on roughly 80-83% of the blame as well. using your logic of course

So basically you are saying George W. Bush can bully senators and congressmen? Even his most staunch opposition? Either GWB is the best salesman this side of infinity or he may have been right (according to your logic).

BTW....Even if, and I stress if, you were correct Bush and his Congressional Cronies still only account for 66.66666% of American Federal Power, the USSC holds the other 33%.

Amazingly enough Bill Clinton (The left's bastion of excellent Presidents) got a lot of shit passed though a republican congress. Good things too (according to the left). So your saying that Congress just rolls willy-nilly into whatever presidential agenda is on the boards that day and just gives the ol' thumbs up?

Again, I'm not saying GWB is 100% right, nor am I saying he's a great president....I am saying (over and over it seems) that the President only holds a finite amount of say...the rest is up to 535 members of the house and 100 members of the senate and the 9 Supreme Court Justices. The President is only one man, a powerful one no question, but still one man in the face of 644 others. And the President has many republican enemies, so while you are correct in suggesting the majority of republicans support the President's agenda, there are a few opposing Republicans and a slew of opposing Democrats.

The moral of the story is this,......The President had a choice to make, he made it (right, wrong, or indifferent)...Congress who has a responsibility to thier districts followed the Presidents advice and signed off on the bill. So are you blaming the salesman or are you blaming the buyer?

[ChiefStrategist]

Originally Posted by Octavian

not just owned ... but absolutely dominated

I wikll pose the question to you then...I posted this on page 2:

Since when is increasing government revenue a good thing? More Government Revenue = Less revenues for me. Explain why this is great fucking idea.

You are going on the premise that Government is a big business (which you hate), yet you are demanding that this big business increase revenues off of "the sweat from the workers backs". Could you be a bigger hypocrite?

Since when is taking from the poor and giving it to the rich (Federal Government) a good idea?

[KingSnake]

Originally Posted by ChiefStrategist

BTW....Even if, and I stress if, you were correct Bush and his Congressional Cronies still only account for 66.66666% of American Federal Power,

So you're saying that bush and the republicans are the satanic devils? I buy it...

[ChiefStrategist]

Originally Posted by KingSnake

So you're saying that bush and the republicans are the satanic devils? I buy it...

The Satanic Devils? Aren't they 2 1/2 games behind the Red Sox right now?

[KingSnake]

Originally Posted by ChiefStrategist

The Satanic Devils? Aren't they 2 1/2 games behind the Red Sox right now?

Pawtucketpwned

[t-dizzle]

snake why don't you think Bush's economic policies are Keynesian?

[CreativeDestruc]

Originally Posted by Octavian

Bush and his cabinet pretty clearly aggressively went after bits of evidence they wanted to believe and called it a war on terror. Fear psychology and the factor it plays in peoples' opinions and votes is HUGE... going against the president on the Iraq issue was called devisive and un-American at the time and Senator Ted Kennedy was lambasted by conservatives for voting against it... Bush successfully paralyzed the left and the democrats in the post 9/11 fear and this is a large reason why many Democrats supported conservative measure - otherwise the conservative media and Reps. would ruin them with anti-American rhetoric.


Our representatives = slightly more Republican than Democrat... 66% - 32% = 34%
... of course Republicans would support a Republican president - it would be political suicide to oppose Bush on matters of war, even if it was unjust but covered up.

Bush = 33%

Bush + Republican majority (through your logic) = 67% of the control in this country

67% and I would even argue that because it is a Republican majority led congress that the control factor for Republicans because of that is close to 75% of the decisions made in congress... democrats have and have had very little ability to truly sway the vote

so -> 75% of 66% = 49.5 or 50 when rounding up..... now we can take another look

...... 50% (Republican majority congress) + 33% (Bush) = 83% control by Bush and the Republicans....

Would you argue that Bush does not have large control over the Republican politicians in Washington?? I would argue that they dyingly support him and find ways to justify his policy.

Democrats have pleanty of blame for their inability to oppose certain things, but then again what can they really do... they have been bullied and walled off by the Republicans, who have a wildly rabbid and outrageously agenda pushing right wing-conservative media to do their dirty work... the Dems can also be blamed for ineptitude when it comes to elections... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory but then again an incumbent sitting on his own war has never lost a reelection.

Using your logic - I estimate that Bush and the Republican party has roughyl 80 to 83% control over this country's policy and thus take on roughly 80-83% of the blame as well. using your logic of course

Too bad the democrats controlled the senate when such crucial votes as the Iraq War and Patriot act were passed. Both passed with the majority of democrats supporting them. You left that part out.