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Old 09-02-2009, 02:12 PM   #11 (permalink)

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Originally Posted by NMMMAFan View Post
It can't be fought. The planet is going to warm up no matter what humans do.
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Even if the warming is inevitable, unavoidable or unrelated to human activity, that's no excuse for not adopting responsible and sustainable behaviour in regards to the environment and natural resources.

Even if cap and trade is a half arsed response to a media driven environmental hysteria (not what I beleive), it will still create an economic and social environment which is conducive to changing our attitudes and behaviour.

This applies as much to dealing with the effects of climate change, as trying to slow it down or prevent it.
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Old 09-02-2009, 02:39 PM   #12 (permalink)

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Originally Posted by Ruprecht View Post
Even if the warming is inevitable, unavoidable or unrelated to human activity, that's no excuse for not adopting responsible and sustainable behaviour in regards to the environment and natural resources.

Even if cap and trade is a half arsed response to a media driven environmental hysteria (not what I beleive), it will still create an economic and social environment which is conducive to changing our attitudes and behaviour.

This applies as much to dealing with the effects of climate change, as trying to slow it down or prevent it.

I would love to know how a group of people who can't even fucking balance a check book are going to control the thermostat of the entire planet?
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Old 09-02-2009, 02:56 PM   #13 (permalink)

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It can't be fought. The planet is going to warm up no matter what humans do.
Posted via Mobile Device
Great excuse, I'll use it next time I murder someone.

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Old 09-02-2009, 03:06 PM   #14 (permalink)

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I would love to know how a group of people who can't even fucking balance a check book are going to control the thermostat of the entire planet?
I'm not sure how that relates to my post...

I'm saying those opposed to cap and trade aren't offering viable alternatives, unless you count continuing with unsustainable and environmentally irresponsible behaviour to be a valid option. The political opposition to climate change just serves as an excuse for those that want to continue their poor behaviour.
Cap and trade is only a small part of modfiying the economic and social clmate towards sustainable and responsible environmental behaviour.
It's not what "they" are going to do, it's what WE need to do.
Environmental damage and loss of biodiversity is something where the longer you leave it, the more costly and potentially permanent the effects.
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:16 PM   #15 (permalink)

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I'm not sure how that relates to my post...

I'm saying those opposed to cap and trade aren't offering viable alternatives, unless you count continuing with unsustainable and environmentally irresponsible behaviour to be a valid option. The political opposition to climate change just serves as an excuse for those that want to continue their poor behaviour.
Cap and trade is only a small part of modfiying the economic and social clmate towards sustainable and responsible environmental behaviour.
It's not what "they" are going to do, it's what WE need to do.
Environmental damage and loss of biodiversity is something where the longer you leave it, the more costly and potentially permanent the effects.

As far as the check book, its an illustration of a loss of confidense in the federal governments ability to get anything done. Maybe i'm becoming too cynical as I age but it seems to me we are governed by people that self serving and power hungry.

It tilts the playing field against the U.S. unless you can convince places like China and India to do the same, which they refuse. Even assuming that you are correct about man made global warming, and I'm not sure you are, I still think it will a detriment to our nation to pursue it at this point in time.
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:54 PM   #16 (permalink)

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Meh, let it melt, I'm way above sea level.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:06 PM   #17 (permalink)

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Funny how when something becomes profitable it also becomes a crisis.

And this global warming thing sure is weird:

August Ends With Near-Record Cold; Temperatures Close To 47-Degree Low - cbs2chicago.com
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:19 PM   #18 (permalink)

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For those who think climate change is not occurring, the planets foremost group that has been studying it, says global warming is "unequivacably happening".

The group is called the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC):

Who are the IPCC?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change is the leading body for the assessment of climate change, established by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) to provide the world with a clear scientific view on the current state of climate change and its potential environmental and socio-economic consequences.

The IPCC is a scientific body. It reviews and assesses the most recent scientific, technical and socio-economic information produced worldwide relevant to the understanding of climate change. It does not conduct any research nor does it monitor climate related data or parameters. Thousands of scientists from all over the world contribute to the work of the IPCC on a voluntary basis. Review is an essential part of the IPCC process, to ensure an objective and complete assessment of current information. Differing viewpoints existing within the scientific community are reflected in the IPCC reports.

The IPCC is an intergovernmental body, and it is open to all member countries of UN and WMO. Governments are involved in the IPCC work as they can participate in the review process and in the IPCC plenary sessions, where main decisions about the IPCC workprogramme are taken and reports are accepted, adopted and approved. The IPCC Bureau and Chairperson are also elected in the plenary sessions.

Because of its scientific and intergovernmental nature, the IPCC embodies a unique opportunity to provide rigorous and balanced scientific information to decision makers. By endorsing the IPCC reports, governments acknowledge the authority of their scientific content. The work of the organization is therefore policy-relevant and yet policy-neutral, never policy-prescriptive."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Their last comprehensive study on global climate change was released in 2007, and it is called the Fourth Assessment Report (AR4), they are currently preparing to release the Fifth Assessment Report (AR5) this year. The AR5 says that global warming is even worse now.

You can read the findings of their AR4 report from 2007 here in their Synthesis Report:

http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-re...yr/ar4_syr.pdf

A sample of thier conclusions called Robust Findings:

"Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident
from observations of increases in global average air and ocean
temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice and rising global
average sea level. {WGI 3.9, SPM}

Many natural systems, on all continents and in some oceans,
are being affected by regional climate changes. Observed changes
in many physical and biological systems are consistent with warming.
As a result of the uptake of anthropogenic CO2 since 1750, the
acidity of the surface ocean has increased. {WGI 5.4, WGII 1.3}

Global total annual anthropogenic GHG emissions, weighted
by their 100-year GWPs, have grown by 70% between 1970 and
2004. As a result of anthropogenic emissions, atmospheric concentrations
of N2O now far exceed pre-industrial values spanning many
thousands of years, and those of CH4 and CO2 now far exceed the
natural range over the last 650,000 years. {WGI SPM; WGIII 1.3}

Most of the global average warming over the past 50 years is
very likely due to anthropogenic GHG increases and it is likely that
there is a discernible human-induced warming averaged over each
continent (except Antarctica). {WGI 9.4, SPM}

Anthropogenic warming over the last three decades has likely
had a discernible influence at the global scale on observed changes
in many physical and biological systems. {WGII 1.4, SPM}"
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:22 PM   #19 (permalink)

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Funny how when something becomes profitable it also becomes a crisis.

And this global warming thing sure is weird:

August Ends With Near-Record Cold; Temperatures Close To 47-Degree Low - cbs2chicago.com
You do realize that those opposed to taking action are directly profiting, while few people who are calling for action actually do?
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:24 PM   #20 (permalink)

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Is it climate change or global warming? What are the kids calling it these days? Here's the deal, no one denies that the climate changes, no one denies that the earth warms and cools. Ice Age?

The problem is the thought that it is caused by humans and that we need massive overhaul of our lifestyles to prevent any kind of change. Those people either are in it for the money, Al Gore, or a so dumb that they think that we can influence the temp of the earth. Do not underestimate the power of a planet and it's sun. It will do what it wants to do regardless of our lifestyles.
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