[James Bomb]

double

[Know'm Sayin?]

I never said the pledge of allegiance. I prolly dont even know it.
"I pledge allegiance to the stance of the united stakes of amelio,
and to the repugnant, for richard stands.
one naked,
under bob,
indispensable with liverty and puffed rice for all. "

[FoxTrot9R]

Originally Posted by James Bomb

This argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Colonists at that time were subjects of the king and were supposed to pay him allegiance. There would have been no independence at all if colonists hadn't stood up to the British forces, who demanded their loyalty by force.

Yes they demanded Americas loyalty by force. What did America do? They took their independance and respect as a soveriegn nation, by force. The war is how all that happened, so America got the respect of England by fighting for it. Whats so hard to understand. You post that I quoted seemed to indicate different.

Quote
"There is a big difference between respect that should be given voluntarily, and respect that is mandated by force. IMO, this country wasn't founded on the latter, otherwise today's generation would still be still kissing the rings of English royalty."

Your saying the Country wasnt founded on respect mandated by force. I am saying that we were Englands bitch and would still be Englands bitch, if not for for the respect that we TOOK, by force. So I disagree with what you are saying. Your post says , in your opinion, that the country was founded on the respect that we were given voluntarily. No one voluntarily gave America shit, at least in the very beginning.

[justyn]

you know, I consider myself a patriot, but I have no problem with students not wanting to do the pledge. More than likely they're just expressing a phase that will likely change anyways. I'm a libertarian so I'm not much for telling people what they can and can't do if they aren't hurting anyone else.

[James Bomb]

Originally Posted by Foxtrot9r

Yes they demanded Americas loyalty by force. What did America do? They took their independance and respect as a soveriegn nation, by force. The war is how all that happened, so America got the respect of England by fighting for it. Whats so hard to understand. You post that I quoted seemed to indicate different.

I am just trying to understand what would motivate you to make an argument that logically contradicts your original argument and the basis of this thread. If America standing up to the British is acceptable, then why isn't the students sitting down during the pledge of allegiance?

I just don't see a coherent argument coming from your position.

Quote
"There is a big difference between respect that should be given voluntarily, and respect that is mandated by force. IMO, this country wasn't founded on the latter, otherwise today's generation would still be still kissing the rings of English royalty."

Your saying the Country wasnt founded on respect mandated by force. I am saying that we were Englands bitch and would still be Englands bitch, if not for for the respect that we TOOK, by force. So I disagree with what you are saying. Your post says , in your opinion, that the country was founded on the respect that we were given voluntarily. No one voluntarily gave America shit, at least in the very beginning.

Historically, it took a long time for the English to respect America. It certainly didn't happen right after the revolution. And a lot of the freedoms that are guaranteed in the Constitution are done so because they were taken away by force in the past.

[_mothra_]

If These Kids Have The Freedom To Sit Down During The Pledge Of Allegiance Then How Else Are They Going To Understand That Freedom Isn't Free? I've Never Been To Another Country But I'm Reasonably Sure That America Is The Greatest Country In The World And If These Little Bohemian Commisexual Poofters Can't Understand That Then They Don't Deserve To Live Here.

[SnakeEyes]

Originally Posted by jimmy48

Everyone Must Participate In The Two Minutes Of Hate Or The Party Will Take You To Room 101!!!

QFT.

[FoxTrot9R]

Originally Posted by James Bomb

I am just trying to understand what would motivate you to make an argument that logically contradicts your original argument and the basis of this thread. If America standing up to the British is acceptable, then why isn't the students sitting down during the pledge of allegiance?

I just don't see a coherent argument coming from your position.


Historically, it took a long time for the English to respect America. It certainly didn't happen right after the revolution. And a lot of the freedoms that are guaranteed in the Constitution are done so because they were taken away by force in the past.

I am sorry you dont see a coherent arguement. Probably because it contradicts what you are saying. I have never contradicted myself. The discussion changed when you started to talk about the " Voluntary Respect that America was founded on." When that is not the case, as I asserted. My arguement is about two vastly different situations. Comparing the Rev. war and some kids in a class is not going to work.

As to your question"If America standing up to the British is acceptable, then why isn't the students sitting down during the pledge of allegiance?". I could say if America forced England to respect us, why cant it force children to respect the flag? But that is dumb to compare the two. There is no real reason to continue this line of the discussion, as it seems we are not understanding each other.

However I am interested in what you are trying to say by this as it does not really make sense.
"And a lot of the freedoms that are guaranteed in the Constitution are done so because they were taken away by force in the past"

[new_mexico1]

Originally Posted by _mothra_

If These Kids Have The Freedom To Sit Down During The Pledge Of Allegiance Then How Else Are They Going To Understand That Freedom Isn't Free? .

by doing more important stuff like reading their history and civics books?

[AZGnP]

Originally Posted by new_mexico1

by doing more important stuff like reading their history and civics books?

You mean actually learning what true patriotism is instead of using worthless symbols and empty gestures?! Surely you jest!