[absofsteel1977]

Originally Posted by Kid McCoy

This is a nice clip that people here should watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b0yHvw-vW0

nice.. rocky is certainly the most underated hard to hit hw.. his physical disposition certainly aided him with that awkward hard to hit style

[shane30]

Originally Posted by Kid McCoy

I agree mostly.
At least, he’d have been more bulletproof in discussions 50 years later about how he stacks up with the other all-times greats anyway.

But in terms of getting all that done, the guy was only human.
He was a fighter based primarily on athleticism, stamina, toughness, power and conditioning, who took shots to land one, and those types, they tend to have shorter careers, and the only one of those attributes you typically take with you into your mid-30’s is the power, most of the time.
And then, there was the cuts, the back problems, and allot of accumulating wealth to edge him into a comfortable retirement.

On top of all that, Marciano was not a party guy, but more the type to focus on the family, so he could adjust to not being in the spotlight better than many, which of course, he did.

He fully cleaned house while it was his house to clean, and who came next up the latter was somebody else’s problem (Patterson and Liston’s).

That’s all you can ask of a guy.

If he hung on, he’d slow down, he’d cut, he battle the back thing, and his interest might have waned too, and going into the 57-59 era, if not the erratic but good Valdez, then Machen, Folley, Patterson, Johansson, Hurricane Jackson…somebody would have eventually gotten to him, just as they eventually got to Sullivan, Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Ali, Holmes, etc.

Big Cat Williams and Liston would be nightmares for an aging Marciano – or anybody.

No magic in his being undefeated, just good timing and commitment to his plan.


Of course, in terms of stature, he did well enough there.
Got his mug on a postage stamp, which says as much about your social impact as anything, really.
In his day he was as big as anyone in sports or bigger…. Willie Mays, Bob Cousy, Stan Musial, Sugar Ray Robinson, Jim Brown……You name it.
And he’s remembered now better than most.


Like McCarthyism, American global dominance, the Cold War, the 57’ Chevy, Doo-Wop music, sock hops and Kukla, Fran and Ollie, Marciano was and remains an emblem of the 50’s, which is about as high as you can go on the success scale.


Hanging on longer could have done him no better.

I have been a boxing fan for a long time. I have been a member of many boxing boards for years. I have been arguing this topic just as long. Your post is far and away the best I have ever read regarding Marciano. thank you, great post.

[Kid McCoy]

Originally Posted by shane30

I have been a boxing fan for a long time. I have been a member of many boxing boards for years. I have been arguing this topic just as long. Your post is far and away the best I have ever read regarding Marciano. thank you, great post.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

I have always found that making arguments always goes better when you’re right, and in this case at least, I have that in my corner.

Stick around Sherdog Boxing,
It’s a good place with a mix of fans ranging from brand new to expert, and the pace of the posting is fast enough to tune in frequently but slow enough so that good posting doesn’t generally go unnoticed.

Welcome !

[shane30]

Originally Posted by Kid McCoy

Thank you, I appreciate that.

I have always found that making arguments always goes better when you’re right, and in this case at least, I have that in my corner.

Stick around Sherdog Boxing,
It’s a good place with a mix of fans ranging from brand new to expert, and the pace of the posting is fast enough to tune in frequently but slow enough so that good posting doesn’t generally go unnoticed.

Welcome !

Thank you.

[Cracky]

Originally Posted by TKDhasBin

Good story.....but Kid forgot to tell you that Pretzie was 9-14 throughout his career.....winning only 6 of his last 20 fights.......

The story hilighted what boxing is supposed to be all about imo. I'd rather hear a story about a rough and tough ol basterd with a 9-14 record that tested the limits of his abilities than 100 stories about fellas with inflated records that never even came close to knowing their true limits.

[bradlee180]

Originally Posted by Cracky

The story hilighted what boxing is supposed to be all about imo. I'd rather hear a story about a rough and tough ol basterd with a 9-14 record that tested the limits of his abilities than 100 stories about fellas with inflated records that never even came close to knowing their true limits.

...like floyd mayweather and Roy Jones...

Man, it would've been great to see them in there with the toughest competition.
Hell, mayweather and Jones probably would've both beaten most of the top guys anyway, but the point is they didn't fight half of the best available competition.

The best competition brings out the best in a man.

Marciano fought the best competition available to him.

[bradlee180]

The one I've often thought about was Marciano vs Liston.

32 year old champ Marciano announced retirement in 1956.

Sonny Liston turned pro in '53,
was 14 wins and 1 loss(avenged) by '56,
jail and boxing ban mid-'56 to '57,
back to boxing in 1958.

What could have been? A prime Liston would have been the Rock's toughest opponent ever.

However, I don't think the Rock would have been prime anymore in 1958 at 34 years old.
The Rock had substantial lower back pain in 1956 which was a major cause for his retirement (in addition to not having any real challengers anymore therefore no big money fights on the horizon.)

Some points to consider:
The Rock absolutely had the power in his right hand to put out even Sonny Liston if he hit him right on the chin. The Rock could take a helluva shot. The Rock did not get frustrated and kept working at cutting down his slicker opponents late in the fight. Competitive heart and mentally TOUGH!
Marciano would NOT have been scared of Liston, and intimidation/fear were a big part of Liston's arsenal. There is the Rock's bad back by 1956 though, this for a crouching fighter.

It would've been a great fight.

[CEROVFC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgrwGNLTUH4

One rather forgotten kayo.

[sushijin]

Originally Posted by CEROVFC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgrwGNLTUH4

One rather forgotten kayo.

This was in 1969, a full 10 years past his prime.. In fact, he retired after his very next fight. Nobody should forget this KO. It was absolutely brutal. By the same token, though, that wasn't the real Sonny Liston. It was a watered down version who was just holding on for a paycheck, with only a semblance of the skills intact that made him a champion. Take him 10 years prior to this and put Leotis Martin in the ring with him, and I'd bet my life that Martin doesn't see round 4.

[Kid McCoy]

Originally Posted by sushijin

This was in 1969, a full 10 years past his prime.. In fact, he retired after his very next fight. Nobody should forget this KO. It was absolutely brutal. By the same token, though, that wasn't the real Sonny Liston. It was a watered down version who was just holding on for a paycheck, with only a semblance of the skills intact that made him a champion. Take him 10 years prior to this and put Leotis Martin in the ring with him, and I'd bet my life that Martin doesn't see round 4.

That is true.