Greatest heavyweight of all time

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Joe Louis over Ali
Larry Holmes over Foreman
Career wise, Lennox is top5
I would put Tyson in the top 10

[pinoy ninja]

how could anyone put tyson in the top 10 all time HWs list? i know everyone is entitled to their own opinion but tyson just simply doesn't belong there at all.

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You really think Joe Frazier, Wlad, Patterson, Rocky etc would have beaten Tyson?? All of his losses after Holyfield, I kinda dismiss and he was just past it. I mean yeah, Danny Williams and McBride beat him, but do we count Holmes losing to Brian Nielson or getting a gift vs Maurice Harris? Or Ali losing to Berbick or Spinks? I don't. In a head to head ranking, I'd put him top five for sure. In a "peak career" ranking, still top ten no doubt. Thing is he went from being overrated (by myself included) to being the guy that everyone likes to bash as having no heart, no skill or stamina etc and being severly underrated. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Just my humble opinion of course.

[Pacman322**]

You can argue that Tyson should be in the top 10. I'm not saying i would or wouldn't put him that high, but it's not as rediculous as some people make it out to be.

The other thing is, it all depends on how you rank fighters. Some people rank them on their skill, some rank fighters based on their accomplishments. If you are going on accomplishments, then no Tyson shouldn't be in the top 10 IMO. But he had alot of great skills, and was a very unique fighter.

I think he could give alot of the Legendary HW's a tough fight.

Same with Lennox Lewis, i think he would give alot of them tough fights as well.

Two fighters i would no doubt rank ahead of him would be Louis and Ali.

[Dogmeat]

Originally Posted by Pacman322

You can argue that Tyson should be in the top 10. I'm not saying i would or wouldn't put him that high, but it's not as rediculous as some people make it out to be.

The other thing is, it all depends on how you rank fighters. Some people rank them on their skill, some rank fighters based on their accomplishments. If you are going on accomplishments, then no Tyson shouldn't be in the top 10 IMO. But he had alot of great skills, and was a very unique fighter.

I think he could give alot of the Legendary HW's a tough fight.

Same with Lennox Lewis, i think he would give alot of them tough fights as well.

Two fighters i would no doubt rank ahead of him would be Louis and Ali.

Yeah, Tyson either gets put too high or criminally low in most lists. He was flawed and the flaws became more apparent later on, but the young, motivated Tyson is dangerous to ANYONE in the early rounds. Not to mention his achievements at the time such as unifying the titles at such a young age.

[pinoy ninja]

as far as achievements go hes not top 10. if you look at who he has beaten and whom he was beaten by it doesn't look great.

i'm not doubting his skills at all. its just that he has fought nothing but bums his whole career. he had all the tools to be one of the best but he was a mental midget. he was a bully who didn't like to get bullied. anyone who stood up to him beat him. he was an excellent fighter but he never really beat a great fighter.

his best wins was razor ruddock, michael spinks and frank bruno but none of those guys are great by any means. larry holmes was well out of his prime when tyson beat him.

[Dogmeat]

Actually, one question I'd like to ask as there are a lot of knowledgeable posters here.

We often refer to different fighters primes as "the fighter who turned up against other-fighter". Such as "the Lewis that fought Rahman would be killed, but the Lewis that fought Golota was an aggressive bastard".

When we pitch "prime vs prime", which versions of fighters would you use for comparison?

Tyson - the one that turned up against Spinks?
Lewis - the one that fought Rahman in the rematch?
Ali - the one that dissected Cleveland Williams?

I'd like to know what the serious boxing fans would use as best examples of the top boxers for prime vs prime fights. In a dream world where we could go back and grab a fighter from one point in his career

[Dogmeat]

Originally Posted by pinoy ninja

as far as achievements go hes not top 10. if you look at who he has beaten and whom he was beaten by it doesn't look great.

i'm not doubting his skills at all. its just that he has fought nothing but bums his whole career. he had all the tools to be one of the best but he was a mental midget. he was a bully who didn't like to get bullied. anyone who stood up to him beat him. he was an excellent fighter but he never really beat a great fighter.

(Sorry for the multiple posts in a row)

I do agree with this, and we can look at his resume and say "well who did he beat?". But we could also ask "how many of those fighters were ruined because of him and never fulfilled their potential"? Not a convincing argument of course - I do agree completely with you. And any argument that is based on "well they coulda bin good" is going to fail anyway!

To use a (admittedly flawed) MMA comparison. We can look at Fedor's win over CroCop and say "yeah, well what did he go on to do?", but we could also say Fedor broke him and he was never the same fighter. I'd like to point out that I am in no way comparing the fragile minded Tyson to the ice cold, game plan master Fedor

But yes, once fighters figured out that you could bully the bully he lost the terrifying aura that beat so many opponents before they got in the ring. Something Ali proved with Liston.

[AppState08]

i dont think lewis is the best of all time and i dont know why anybody on here can justify that. He was a champ in an era like we have today, and one day people will talk of the awesome skill that Wlad has and how he would have beaten the next big thing. Blah Blah Blah...the truth is we will never know who is the best.

[muayT]

joe louis, ali, foreman, frazier, holmes. jack johnson my nostalgic fav, the man had balls.