[King Kabuki]

Well-said Sir. I've got nothing more to add save that your shirt ships out Thursday.

[bradlee180]

Originally Posted by Tam-Tam

When people tell you Emile was this, that or the other, just remember this: In HOF, Emile Griffith has fought the most top ten contenders. Robinson, Armstrong, Duran, Leonard, Monzon, Louis, Ali, Hagler, WHitaker, Chavez...whoever. They're all behind Emile.

55% of his fights over the space of his entire career, involved a top ten ranked opponent. Unheard then and now. Absolutely incredible.

...yeah, and nowadays, the guy that's widely-recognized as the Pound-For-Pound #1 has only a single Hall-of-Famer on his entire resume, and it was a past-his-prime Hall-of-Famer at that in Oscar De La Hoya. That ain't gonna get it done.

The REAL #1 guy is Manny "Pacman" Pacquiao.

The current linear welterweight champ has yet to fight a legitimate top welterweight contender...and he's had the damn title for almost 2 years!

Cotto
Mosely
Margarito
Williams
Quintana
Cintron
Hell, even Berto...

EDIT: I thought Emile Griffith ran too much from Dick Tiger.
Tremendous competition in that era, and the top guys fought the top guys.

[King Kabuki]

EDIT: I thought Emile Griffith ran too much from Dick Tiger.
Tremendous competition in that era, and the top guys fought the top guys.

At the time of that fight, Emile was battling demons regarding Professional Prizefighting the likes of which you and I will never fully comprehend. We always say there's no real excuse for one's actions in the ring, but that this man even faced said demons and got in the ring with the people he did, and won despite that personal Hell, IMO should always be noted as an asterisk when discussing his faults in certain time-frames.

[Teedoh74]

For Tito's 2nd greatest win against DLH, there wasn't too many highlights. Dissapointing fight imo.

[bradlee180]

Originally Posted by Teedoh74

For Tito's 2nd greatest win against DLH, there wasn't too many highlights. Dissapointing fight imo.

That's why I hate the switch to 12 rounders instead of 15.
Separates the men from the boys and all that.
De La Hoya was completely gassed midway through rd 10.
De La Hoya really did win the fight on points far and away winning about 8 or 9 rds, but it was pretty bad to watch a world-class elite fighter being paid millions of dollars, and gassing out in 10 rds.

[bradlee180]

Originally Posted by Turban Capote

Let me guess, no champion from the past 20 years makes that top 5.

Any fighters in last 20 years to make the Top 5 of All-Time in their division?
Since 1988 then.

Julio Cesar Chavez.
Bernard Hopkins. The prime Hopkins circa 1995 to 2000 could’ve fought with any middleweight in history.
Pernell Whitaker.
Maybe Azumah Nelson.
Joe Calzaghe at 168, but the class hasn’t been around that long and has a short list of champions to pick from.
Holyfield at Cruiserweight, (last fight at cruiser was in ’88), but there’s not much to pick from at cruiser with such a short history.
Roy Jones?
Ricardo “El Matador” Mayorga.

Marvin Hagler just misses this list as he retired in ‘87, not ‘88.
Mike Tyson’s prime was ’86, ‘87, and ‘88, but he’s not an All-Time Top 5 Heavyweight. I’d still put Tyson in the Top 10 of All-Time though at #10 based on his accomplishments of unifying the titles, becoming the youngest Heavyweight champ in history, and for being a dominant champion for a few years.

A problem is so many (not all) of these intermediate junior/super weight classes have short histories, so making Top 5 All-Time in those junior/super classes isn’t that difficult.

Another difficulty is top fighters that have jumped too readily from weight class to weight class like James Toney. Toney could fight with anybody, but he didn’t stick to his weight class the way Bernard Hopkins did establishing a legacy.
I don’t think floyd mayweather makes the Top 5 of All-Time cut, not even at super-featherweight 130 lbs where he was at his best. Who’d he beat at 130 other than the late Diego Corrales? Floyd’s top talent, but so far he’s avoided the tough opposition that could’ve made him a legend.

Not Trinidad as a Top 5 Welterweight of All-Time though.
Trinidad was good, but many past welterweight champs would’ve taken out Tito.
Sugar Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, basically harmonica’s top 20 list on page 1 of this thread.
I liked watching Tito, but he was too 1-dimensional.

[CEROVFC]

The de la hoya fight will forever be a controversial decision. Less so than Hagler-Leonard, but along those lines as there's less people who think Trinidad won.

That being said, Trinidad deserves plenty of respect. The guy didn't exactly duck anyone. He went through 147, 154, and 160 fighting the best those divisions had to offer. He didn't leave his rank to conjecture, but instead showed us exactly where he deserved to be by repeatedly fighting the best.

[Turban Capote]

Originally Posted by bradlee180

Any fighters in last 20 years to make the Top 5 of All-Time in their division?
Since 1988 then.

Julio Cesar Chavez.
Bernard Hopkins. The prime Hopkins circa 1995 to 2000 could’ve fought with any middleweight in history.
Pernell Whitaker.
Maybe Azumah Nelson.
Joe Calzaghe at 168, but the class hasn’t been around that long and has a short list of champions to pick from.
Holyfield at Cruiserweight, (last fight at cruiser was in ’88), but there’s not much to pick from at cruiser with such a short history.
Roy Jones?
Ricardo “El Matador” Mayorga.

Marvin Hagler just misses this list as he retired in ‘87, not ‘88.
Mike Tyson’s prime was ’86, ‘87, and ‘88, but he’s not an All-Time Top 5 Heavyweight. I’d still put Tyson in the Top 10 of All-Time though at #10 based on his accomplishments of unifying the titles, becoming the youngest Heavyweight champ in history, and for being a dominant champion for a few years.

A problem is so many (not all) of these intermediate junior/super weight classes have short histories, so making Top 5 All-Time in those junior/super classes isn’t that difficult.

Another difficulty is top fighters that have jumped too readily from weight class to weight class like James Toney. Toney could fight with anybody, but he didn’t stick to his weight class the way Bernard Hopkins did establishing a legacy.
I don’t think floyd mayweather makes the Top 5 of All-Time cut, not even at super-featherweight 130 lbs where he was at his best. Who’d he beat at 130 other than the late Diego Corrales? Floyd’s top talent, but so far he’s avoided the tough opposition that could’ve made him a legend.

Not Trinidad as a Top 5 Welterweight of All-Time though.
Trinidad was good, but many past welterweight champs would’ve taken out Tito.
Sugar Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, basically harmonica’s top 20 list on page 1 of this thread.
I liked watching Tito, but he was too 1-dimensional.

I know where you're coming from. I just see it a different way. I just think it's a different game today and the game has been lowered in some aspects but higher in different aspects. I think with the boxers of the past twenty years mental focus and shortsightedness towards money took a nosedive, but as far as technical skills like defense and optimization of offense and strategy and playing rounds, it has gotten better. I would give credit to more of the current boxers than you in regards of them beating some boxers in the past.

[PrettyBoyOscar]

The newest Trinidad's video:
YouTube - Felix "Tito" Trinidad Highlight
Great

[BobbyBrez]

Originally Posted by bradlee180

...yeah, and nowadays, the guy that's widely-recognized as the Pound-For-Pound #1 has only a single Hall-of-Famer on his entire resume, and it was a past-his-prime Hall-of-Famer at that in Oscar De La Hoya. That ain't gonna get it done.

Pfffff.........