[Recoil_85]

I was thinking about this the other day, and was wondering if someone more educated on the subject had any answers for me?

How are boxers from the lighter weight classes, like Julian Jackson for instance, able to produce such massive amounts of force in their punches? Another example is Bob Foster, the guy looked frail and skinny, but actually fractured someone's skull in one of his fights I believe. True or not, the man had monstrous power. There are plenty of other examples, Like Duran, Hearns etc

But if you watch someone like Tua, Foreman or Shavers fight, there punchers look much slower, but have an equally, if not more devastating effect. I know it sounds stupid, but If you look at Tyson, it apperas he does hit harder than say Tua because of his speed, it looks far less clubbing. But I believe the opposite to be true.

So what exactly is the science / dynamics going on behind punching power, if anyone is kind enough to explain?

[panda_strike2]

I think there are two equations to look at for the "impact" of a punch:

Force = mass * acceleration (equal parts size and speed)

Kinetic Engergy = 1/2 mass * velocity squared (speed is more critical than size)

Which one is more appropriate for the impact a punch does, I'm not sure of. I think the Kinetic Energy (speed-related) creates the "smack" that registers with a guy like Tyson more than Tua and the force is definitely what moves the other guy off of his center of balance and stops his momentum. I don't know which is more applicable to causing a concussion or a broken rib, though. I'm interested in hearing from someone more knowledgable on that.

BTW, the standup technique forum might give better answers.

[Da Chin Checka]

Now this is a really interesting topic. For one guys like Shavers and Foreman had power, real power. Ernie Shavers made fighters urinate blood from his body shots, Foreman gave plenty of fighters concussions. So it don't matter what element causes the most damage as long as power is properly apply behind the punch. What made Tyson's punches look more vicious was:

Number One:

Speed...Speed adds to the power, If a train is coming at you while you are in a car and the train slows down but still hits your car you will be crush. If a train is coming at full speed towards you while you are in the same car than you and the car will be shatter to pieces. Foreman and Shavers apply mass behind their punches with power, Tyson apply mass with power from the legs plus speed.

Number Two:

Snapping the punches. When I am in the boxing gym one of the biggest mistakes people do when they first work on a bag is they just swing at the bag without snapping their punches. Tyson was great at snapping his power along with adding speed behind them. Snapping a punch creates that whipping like effect on the target which causes more damage than if you just keep going thru with the punch because by the time you hit the target you punch loses velocity and the power is not there no more. It just turns into a waste of motion. That is why I seen big guys punch someone and they look like they punch like a girl.



As for the secret as to why smaller fighter have the viciousness of hitting so hard. It's because of strong tendons. Believe it or not you can be a skinny wimpy looking guy but if you have strong tendons you can do damage with your fist. Many are born with it, others build it thru isometric exercises. These type of people are called ISO-Freaks.

Manny Pacquiao, Felix Trinidad, Julian Jackson, Tonny Hearns, Bob Foster, Bruce Lee Marvin Hagler, Kosta T. are all ISO Freaks because they have such strong tendons. Strong tendons helps in creating motion behind a punch which could hit hard. That is why you may see a big muscle bound guy who punches like a girl, because he has weak tendons and not enough flexibility to create a full motion in his punch. Even if he has strong tendons, adding too much muscles mass will take away the ability of throwing a fully extended punch with a snapping motion which will take away its power.

Guys like Shavers, Rocky Marciano, George Foreman and Mike Tyson all had really strong tendons and are also ISO-Freaks. That is why they were born with that raw punching power.

[King Kabuki]

Some guys are also just heavy-handed. They don't have a lot else giong for them. Like Naseem Hamed. Strong tendons, and also obviously strong fast-twitch muscle fibers. Nervous system response quickness also helps in this area. But these are things a person is typically either born with or not.

Nas was crazy in that he had Devastating KO power in either hand, moving in almost any direction. Half the time he was off-balance when throwing as well. Sometimes you just come across a naturally gifted freak of nature.

[Ancient Warrior]

Some very informative posts.

[djacobox372]

Originally Posted by panda_strike2

I think there are two equations to look at for the "impact" of a punch:

Force = mass * acceleration (equal parts size and speed)

Kinetic Engergy = 1/2 mass * velocity squared (speed is more critical than size)

Which one is more appropriate for the impact a punch does, I'm not sure of. I think the Kinetic Energy (speed-related) creates the "smack" that registers with a guy like Tyson more than Tua and the force is definitely what moves the other guy off of his center of balance and stops his momentum. I don't know which is more applicable to causing a concussion or a broken rib, though. I'm interested in hearing from someone more knowledgable on that.

BTW, the standup technique forum might give better answers.

Hmmm... this would support the idea that fist/forearm mass can have a significant impact on power. Especially from "arm punches" that don't have the body behind them, Foreman seemed to be able to club guys, maybe his massive forearms had something to do with it. 25% more weight = 25% more power.

[Kid McCoy]

This is covered pretty well......good job you guys, way to replay to a querry.

[Da Chin Checka]

Originally Posted by djacobox372

Hmmm... this would support the idea that fist/forearm mass can have a significant impact on power. Especially from "arm punches" that don't have the body behind them, Foreman seemed to be able to club guys, maybe his massive forearms had something to do with it. 25% more weight = 25% more power.

The reason why Foreman have such powerful arm punches is because being that he was naturally tall and big he would simply plant his feet flat on the ground as he would throw a punch, using the floor for leverage to get more of his body weight behind the punch. He didn't need to depend on extra leverage of power distribution since he was big. Plus his heavy hand added to the power like swinging a sledge hammer. Plus the beautiful thing about the sweet science is that it teaches you how to throw punches effectively and properly. If Foreman would have not been a boxer he probably would not have been such a hard puncher as he was when he learn the right way to throw a punch.


For Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano it's a different story. Foreman can get away with throwing arm punches as I described, Tyson and Marciano can't. This is all due to the fact that Tyson and Marciano were shorter in height and in reach. And because of their reach disadvantage they were swarmers. The swarmer is a boxer who attempts to overwhelm his opponent by applying constant pressure. Swarmers tend to have a strong chin, a very solid bob and weave defense, good power, and powerful punches. Tyson and Marciano have to fight in this way because they have to force themselves thru their opponents gaurd to deliver a offense.

The effect of a punch is calculated by the energy applied at the sight of the hit. So the kinetic energy of Marciano and Tyson's punch, that is the degree of damage the punch would generate, is equal to 1/2 mass x velocity x velocity (1/2mv2). Their's was equal to the mass of the arm plus the weight they shoved forward with body weight. Next, they hit in close. As your arm moves forward the time from beginning to end increases as you increase the distance of the thrown punch. Since velocity = feet per sec, that means the longer the range the less velocity. Now the energy generated is, remember, mass times vel x vel. Well if your punches are so much shorter, traveling only a few inches, your velocity is incredible! And the transmitted energy at impact is enormous. That calculation of energy is the destructive force (damage) to the body. Basically they broke their opponents up inside.

In other words, because of their reach disadvantage it actually created an advantage in helping to apply power into their punches.


Tyson was even more dangerous because he was so agile and he possess more boxing skills as far as movement and throwing combos and stuff.


This is a very complex and fascinating subject since there is not just one answer here to explain everything. The one common area all of these fighters mention in this thread shared is having strong tendons which is really important for the development of delivering strong punches.

[V.RIARCA76]

Originally Posted by King Kabuki

Some guys are also just heavy-handed. They don't have a lot else giong for them. Like Naseem Hamed. Strong tendons, and also obviously strong fast-twitch muscle fibers. Nervous system response quickness also helps in this area. But these are things a person is typically either born with or not.

Nas was crazy in that he had Devastating KO power in either hand, moving in almost any direction. Half the time he was off-balance when throwing as well. Sometimes you just come across a naturally gifted freak of nature.

Most of those smaller guys that hit with such power have larger bases. Like Hamed had legs/thighs like tree trunks for his size. Not very scientific like the other great posts, but I believe this to be a factor also.

[Zaphod]

Another thing that a lot of people forget about is how tight your fist is. It's been a long time since high school physics, but one of the basic principles in transfers of momentum is that when two things collide, if one of them "gives" the give absorbs some of the force. Meaning if your fist and my head collide, one of them has to give way by either collapsing or moving. If your fist doesn't, my head will. So loose fists means that you're wasting the force of your own punches by letting your hands eat it up (which is also how you injure your hands). It's also why there was such a big fiasco about Tito's handwraps a few years back (which has been covered a few times in posts here).

Strong hands make a noticeable difference in your power. When I was at my old gym, I started using those grip-strengtheners and the guys I sparred with said they could tell it made a difference when I connected.